Michael Jackson's World-Class Beers

You know I had this beer fresh from the tap in San Francisco and I never liked it, and I still do not after 40 years. It always had a strange taste to me, but I loved the Liberty ale and Anchor Porter. I think it was because of liking the sweeter darker beers the most, I guess. I can drink it if I get bought one while in town, but its not one I think is world class, but who I am to argue with MJ. Goes to show you that taste being subjective, really screws up comparing anything really.

 

Hmm? IIRC, based on my last two samplings of the Liberty Ale and Steam, the Steam is a whole lot darker (and probably sweeter, if you break it down) than the Liberty.

It screws up comparing things long distance, via the internet. When you're sitting around with a group and style guides (and hopefully an experienced drinker who can pick out characters) it becomes a different matter -- and more fun!

 

Even if you've only had a handful of Maibocks, I'd bet they were all lighter in body and color than the HB (save Summit's of a couple years ago).

Not sure where you live, but you may be getting the HB a little more fresh than here in the U.S. Midwest, this could account for some difference. If you can, find a fresh Einbecker Maibock and compare it to the HB. The Einbeck is terrific (too).

 

Goes to show up different mouth(s) taste things differently, and be thankful it does. Be careful of guides and social pressure, I would NOT let a group tell me what I like in a beer.

 

Guides should do just that, guide.

Doesn't explain why so many tell me that IPA is the best thing since Imperial Stout!

 

Steve,

Maybe group-think, social pressure, etc. do explain part of the appeal of IPAs, 2xIPAs, IIPAs, etc.

There's must be a huge market for these styles because almost every US brewer produces some form of an IPA. I'm not a fan of these styles (although I really like SS India Ale) because I've had too many bad ones, I just don't bother anymore. There may (must) be others out there who feel the same as me but don't make the break, maybe hype, social pressures, etc. keep them from making that break.

KP.

 

I would take out:

Guiness Extra Stout (now brewed by Labatt in London, Ontario)
Paulaner Salvator (Andechs and Ayinger take the cake here)

 

What changed with Rodenbach? While PU and Chimay Blue have definitely made significant changes to their brewing process, I haven't heard the same about Rodenbach. The beer is still fermented and aged the same way. From what I hear, the Grand Cru used to be 100% aged foeder beer, but now it is a blend of 2/3 old and 1/3 young. The Vintage is 100% aged beer. Caractere Rouge (Palm's replacement for Alexander) is not pasteurized and is bottle conditioned.

Personally the Grand Cru on tap is the best of their beers. In bottle format it is pasteurized but on draught it isn't!

 

No argument there- they have definitely lost some zip on the old fastball in the ensuing decades since those evaluations were originally written. Salvator has probably fallen the hardest of the two, sadly- it was once in Celebrator's league, imo.

 

I guess Kulmbacher Kloster Schwarz is nowadays called Mönchshof Schwarzbier. And this one has no right to be anywhere near a world-class beers list nowadays.

 

I look at the late/great MJ's list as moment in time. I would equate it somewhat to the Big Bang and various theories of how it was created. The beer universe is expanding, some truisms hold up. Time & better understanding may change our understanding.

Frame of reference is key. SNPA was a beer that rocked my world in 93, now it just makes me wish I had a Celebration or Torpedo. Anchor Steam is a classic case of a beer that must be kept well. These days it seems like it is at best a 50/50 shot even at good bars to find this in the shape it deserves to be in.
To be fair, just look at how much the world has changed since then. I still like his list, it is a damn shame how much some of these beers have changed for the worse due to market forces/pressures. However, those same drivers now allow me to enjoy some many great beers in an area of the country/world that would've had no great beers back then

 

@AugustusRex Cheers to resurrecting a 3-yr old thread! Got a chance to revisit a good one.

 

Off the ones i've had (bold) i've only really been disappointed by Duvel & Anchor Steam.
Plus the central european version of Guinness Extra Stout is bland beyond belief

 

Looking over the list I'd say the following still deserve to be considered as world class beers:

Zum Uerige Alt
Schneider Aventinus
Schlenkerla Marzen
Duvel (controversial perhaps)
Westmalle Tripel
Westy 12
Orval
Traquair House Ale
Anchor Steam
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
Alaskan Brewing Smoked Beer.


Two reasons

1) Because of their overwhelming significance to the history and direction of beer evolution.
2) Because they largely continue to be produced as they were in 1986 without decline in taste/quality.

 

Why do you say that Duvel's status is controversial?

 

The Canadian market's GES brewed by Labatt existed when Jackson wrote his first Pocket Guide (US - 1982), and he gave it 3 stars (out of 5) - "Worthy of Attention" - writing:

IIRC, Labatt's license for GES dates back to the 1960s.

The US was also getting some - but not all - GES from Canada when the initial Pocket Guide was published as well - starting in the 1970s, IIRC - but not exclusively and it was a different version than the domestic Canadian one (5.5% vs 5%). He did not specifically mention that version but did give the Irish-brewed and pasteurized, "exported to North America" Extra Stout only 4 stars - "Highly Distinctive".

It was only what he termed "the drier Anglo-Irish bottled ...Extra Stout" (4% abv) that got the 5 stars -"What it lacks in creaminess, this bottle conditioned brew more than makes up in finesse." Of course, that bottle-conditioned GES no longer exists.

EDIT- Looks like I posted some of this info 3 years ago when the thread started - apologies for the redundancy.

 

You answered your question with the blended Grand Cru. I need to taste the Vintage, that will probably be what I seek.

 

I've encounter some people who believe there has been deterioration in quality over the years. I don't see it myself. In fact, I think its been one of the most consistent beers over the decades. Though i couldn't tell you how it tasted in 1923.

 

GES was an excellent source of yeast in my early homebrewing days in the 1960s before LHBS sprang up.

When the bottle conditioning was discontinued , Jilly Goulden and Oz Clarke tested the new version on the BBC's Food and Drinks Programme. They slated it dreadfully, saying that it wasn't fit to carry the Guinness label.