Michael Jackson's World-Class Beers

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by herrburgess, May 22, 2012.

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  1. NeroFiddled

    NeroFiddled Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,276) Jul 8, 2002 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Quite an enjoyable thread!!! Personally I feel all of the beers listed still retain their place, although I would agree with hopfenunmaltz that maybe the Jever is questionable, but I disagree that "The German list would be very much the same" as Germany has been slowly improving, and there are now quite a few new "craft" breweries open.
     
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  2. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Are there offerings from German 'craft' breweries that you would consider truly world-class (based on Jackson's definition of the term)?
     
  3. socon67

    socon67 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,895) Jun 18, 2010 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    I'd be curious how Michael Jackson would view today's craft beers and their distinction of World Class status. Would he consider Heady Topper a World Class based on the DIPA style? Would barrel aged stouts like BCBS be looked at as torch-bearers? It would be a fascinating discussion.
     
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  4. StephenPM

    StephenPM Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2014 Kentucky

    I'll not begin to argue that beer and brewing hasn't changed substantially in the last few decades since his list was initially published, with mega-consolidations, price pressures, quality trade-offs and the rebirth of small, quality brewing; but what I take from Mr. Jackson's list is that, while he undoubtedly had as refined a palette and understanding of the complexity of beer flavors as perhaps any person since, he was much more open minded towards all styles and sources than today's beer hobbyist. His approach toward enjoying beer has been a personal inspiration for nearly twenty years.
     
  5. Zimbo

    Zimbo Pooh-Bah (2,305) Aug 7, 2010 Scotland
    Pooh-Bah

    That's pretty much how I see it as well. Well before the craft beer scene really kicked off as it has now Michael Jackson frequently said that America was making the best and most innovative beer in the world. And he loved Expedition Stout too. I'm pretty sure he would have been all over the latest trends we're seeing now.
     
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  6. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    I heard him say we were producing the most variety (and frequently at a very high level), but never "the best." In fact, I never heard him refer to any one culture's beers as in any way superior to another's. Just wasn't his MO (again, unlike many hobbyists these days). Any primary source quotes you can supply?
     
  7. Zimbo

    Zimbo Pooh-Bah (2,305) Aug 7, 2010 Scotland
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm typing from memory here and I have a funny feeling what you've brought up is quite possibly closer to the truth . I think his Beer Hunter website, which I believe is still up and running, is where he wrote about his American beer experiences.
     
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  8. AugustusRex

    AugustusRex Initiate (0) Apr 12, 2013 Canada (ON)

    I'm glad that's all that changed, if you haven't, have the Grand Cru on tap.
     
  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    One aspect of the American beer scene circa 2002 that Michael Jackson appreciated was the selection of beer available.

    Some quotes from Michael Jackson:

    “The U.S. has the world's best selection of beers, and that's the truth.”

    “In articles for the consumer press, it is hard to communicate the point that the U.S. makes some of the world's greatest beers, and augments them with a wider range of imports than can be found anywhere else.”

    “The bigger American cities now offer a diversity of beer-styles far greater than that to be found in any single European country.”

    With the ‘expansion’ of the US craft beer movement, the selection of beer in the US right now (2015) is even greater than what Michael Jackson reported on in 2002.

    Cheers!

    http://beerhunter.com/documents/19133-001742.html
     
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  10. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    So, yes, the best variety/selection and some world-class beers. I agree that there was at the time, and still is, no doubt about that.
     
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  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Also from Michael Jackson (2001):

    “The astonishing diversity of styles today produced in the U.S. issues from more than 1,500 breweries. The United States has the most breweries, the strongest beer (Samuel Adams' Millennium, at 20 percent), but - much more important - the greatest diversity.

    Scarcely anywhere in Europe, perhaps nowhere, is it as easy to find under one roof beers brewed in the Czech Republic, Germany, Belgium and the British Isles as it is in New York, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C, Chicago, Seattle, Portland or San Francisco. No country in Europe could remotely approach the 50-odd styles of beer that are judged each year at the Great American Beer Festival. Remember, all of those are brewed in the U.S.

    I know of no brewery in Europe that matches skill and adventurousness in the manner of the Southampton Publick House (with its Eisbock and Saison, for example) or classic styles and an individual touch as Brooklyn or Victory do. I don't think any European brewery is as committed to eclecticism as Dogfish Head or Hair of the Dog. If anyone in Europe is as enthusiastic about big, bold, flavors as Great Lakes or as stout-hearted as Kalamazoo, it is an extraordinarily well-kept secret. No European city has as many breweries as Seattle or Portland, Oregon

    And where in Europe can I find Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Celebration or Big Foot?

    I fly to America every other month on average. I have been doing this for more than 20 years, and have visited every state. I come here for the beer...and interviewers still don't believe me.”

    http://beerhunter.com/documents/19133-001608.html

    Cheers!
     
  12. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Why did you bold that section? Are you implying someone here doesn't believe that the U.S. has the world's largest variety and/or world-class beers?
     
  13. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Savant (1,236) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
    Trader

    "He was as equally versed in the world of malt whisky as well as beer, and his book, Michael Jackson's Malt Whisky Companion (1989) is the best-selling book on the subject in the world"

    He may have fueled the "BA everything!" mentality more than posters on this forum. Not to abandon non-wood aged beers, but to keep experimenting. He loved the burton aging system. I can't imagine he wouldn't have loved what's going on right now (ie same Bruery beers aged in various spirit barrels).
     
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  14. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm not sure how enamored of the big, ultra-boozy beers he would have been. Here's a quote about intense, high ABV beers (namely EKU 28 and Samichlaus) from his Pocket Guide:

    "While this contest [of who can produce a beer with the highest ABV] is too hard to resist, such muscle has limited application. These are beers of excellent quality, but they would be best dispensed from small barrels suspended from the necks of mountain-rescue dogs. Whether they revive or stun the recipient depends upon the constitution of the drinker."
     
  15. Smakawhat

    Smakawhat Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,191) Mar 18, 2008 Maryland
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Times have changed, fads have come and gone, some things remain the same.

    Always know your roots and appreciate them for what they were, and to some degree... still are... I say.
     
  16. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,174) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
    Society Pooh-Bah

    That sounds an awful lot like respecting tradition -- how un-mod of you. :wink:
     
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  17. hophugger

    hophugger Grand Pooh-Bah (3,434) Mar 5, 2014 Virginia
    Pooh-Bah

    The US list appears to be a little light and outdated, not that the beers are bad, just not up to date...
     
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  18. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    I think your sarcasm is on full, or maybe not?
     
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  19. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,077) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah

    Even countries with 1000-year brewing traditions have <10 beers Jackson considered truly world-class. Which ones from the U.S. do you think he would add (or remove), and why?
     
  20. AugustusRex

    AugustusRex Initiate (0) Apr 12, 2013 Canada (ON)

    He did die in 2007.
     
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