Michael Jackson's World-Class Beers

There are lots of 'things' going on in a beer like Rochefort 10 and none of those 'things' seem to be out of balance with regard to the other 'things'. All of those 'things' are non-subtle but yet in balance.

Cheers!

 

It's actually all three beers but not him specifically making the statement: "Demand for Chimay beer grew steadily, forcing the monastery to replace its gorgeous traditional copper brewhouse with a less aesthetic functional assembly in the early 1990s.
...
Critics have complained that the new brewhouse has cramped the style the exuberant yeast, leading to beers with cleaner, less spicy flavors."
Then he goes on to describe a tasting where the aged Blues were (obviously) better, the star being a 1988.

 

Honestly, I think "balanced" and "complex" are two of the most overused and misused descriptors for beer on this website. In fact, they're so overused and misused, I'm not even sure what the terms mean exactly when describing certain beers anymore.

 

Yeah, that part is definitely true, but wasn't it cool seeing that chart posted by @AugustusRex that shows a Pils and Helles as having more complexity than a RIS or IPA? That's certainly true in my experience, but try showing that on the home page and see what kind of shitstorm it causes .

 

Maybe you are not sure what those terms mean but that does not mean that others do not know what they mean.

Cheers!

 

That's not exactly what I meant. I understand what those terms mean to me personally, and descriptors are often quite subjective.

But what I said was, "I'm not even sure what the terms mean exactly when describing certain beers."

For example, I see many describe highly touted IPAs as balanced and complex. Then they'll go on to simply describe how the citrus and fruit from the hops burst from the glass and will refer to virtually nothing else in the beer. So what makes that beer "balanced" if it's so hop forward, what about is complex if the majority of the flavors perceived are from hops?

Or I will see many barrel-aged imperial stouts described as "complex". Are they really complex, or just bold? How many flavors are there truly in those beers compared to something such as a St. Bernardus 12?

Then take the diagram @TongoRad referenced from @AugustusRex. I think that's a cool diagram which I mostly agree with. It would indicate IPAs aren't complex at all, but a pilsner is. Well, I'd be curious to hear why some think a pilsner is more complex than an IPA. Not disagreeing or agreeing with that notion, just curious.

 

Because the fundamental element of complexity is how the beverage (beer in this case) continues to show other facets as you consume it, and keeps your interest up through a few glasses. The multiplicity of aromas/flavors is secondary, and really relates more to intensity; many of those IPAs and IRSs will overwhelm you at first with a multiple sensory overload, but then become kind of monotone after a short while. They are lacking in the underlying subtlety that makes for truly complex beverages.

 

As usual, great response. Thanks for describing what complexity means to you. We should save this defintion as required reading for all reviewers!

 

I'd say pilsners are restrained enough that the interplay between components is more detectable. Not every sip is quite the same, and if you have multiple glasses, this still continues throughout the evening. When I drink IPAs, like you pointed out, the pithy bitterness and (sometimes) tropical character are there jumping out at me, and continue to do so as I drink. Why have more than one glass when I already have its profile mapped out after half a glass? Plus the simple profile is so intense, it's like looking into a light. It puts strong imprints onto your tastebuds.


EDIT: just noticed @TongoRad 's post just above. His description of complexity is spot on, and more concise than mine. Now my post is just redundant...

 

To me "complexity" in a beer is when I can taste a multitude of different flavors throughout the sampling. From spiciness and dark fruits to earthiness to roasted malts and caramel or chocolate characters. Many Stouts, Porters, and Old Ales come to mind when I think of complexity. Fuller's 1845 or their Vintage are very complex beers to my palate.

I probably find "balanced" a much more simple concept than most: Same amount of malt to hop characters in the beer. Munich Helles is about the most balanced style of beer I know.

 

I'm fairly certain this was a reference to what may be the funniest line (in my opinion) in the classic, "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation".

 

Not at all, I found it interesting, and appreciate your personal explanation. Went back and looked at that diagram again by the way, I love it.

I actually find pilsners more balanced (more so Czech than German) even though they lean towards being hop forward. I still consider a Helles malt forward.

I find English pale ales/bitters some of the most balanced, especially when fresh so that the hops are more noticeable. Believe it or not, I find Honker's Ale one of the most balanced US beers period.

Gueuze is a style I still find to be more complex than most, there's just so much going on in that style. However, I believe they're higher rated because the "sour" flavors are so intense, not because of the complexity.

 

Watch it every year!

 

I was just in Ireland last week. Guinness is that same damn beer here as it is in Ireland. Was a load of crock that myth was.

Now, finally having a Pilsner Urquell that wasn't skunked, that was delicious.

 

These will get you close enough next time:

 

I guess there is a certain fungibility to the term 'balance' with regards to beer, but the way you are using it seems to be a bit too straightforward to me. I tend to use it with style in mind, as they say- or not strictly by the numbers, in other words.

 

For me this is also critical. On a teeter-totter there is a single point of balance. But each style of beer is like a new, different toy and will have a different balance point, with the more complex beers having multiple, sometimes shifting, balance points over the course of the experience.

 

This is one of those beers that I'll have to take everybody's word for has changed for the worse. Due to some issues, my palette isn't the most refined, but if you're lucky enough to experience Urquell in one of the cities that serve it as tank beer, I challenge you to spit it out. Still a world class beer when it's at its best.

 

The Pilsner Urquell beers served at Tanková (tank) Pubs in the Czech Republic have a few differences:

· It is unfiltered

· Since it is served directly from a tank you are assured that it is very fresh

Cheers!