The Great Whirlpool Hopping Experiment

Dave,

That is awesome information; thanks!!

So it would appear that adding hops at flame out would permit most of the Citronellol and all of the Geraniol to 'survive' the hopstand.

Cheers!

 

Dave,

I attended that same presentation at the recent NHC. I very much tasted the DMS in that sample; a very noticeable flavor of butter/butterscotch for my palate. Ironically that was the only 'doctored' sample that I could finish drinking. The other samples were disgusting for me.

Cheers!

Jack

 

Just checking in guys!

We add hops to IPAs at a whirlpool temp of 140 deg F. Preserves a nice flavor. But I can tell you, nothing compares to dry hopping. Well made IPAs come alive with dry hopping, particularly in aroma, but also in flavor.

I think Wolfe was on to something in his thesis:

http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/34093/Wolfe_thesis.pdf

The best way in my opinion to get maximum essential oil extraction from hops is dry hopping and continual mixing under a zero oxygen environment. We've began playing with this here a bit more recently. My only concern is amount of time required, my guess is after thorough mixing for too long of a time you will begin to extract those unwanted plantlike flavors as well.

My guess is, you will see a small shift in preference towards hops added at cooler whirlpool temps, but adding hops as a DH will massively improve results. The whirlpool additions tend to do more more for flavor, but very little for aroma, whereas DH hops do much more for aroma and a little less for flavor. I also have a theory that there's a "magic ratio" for hops added to boiled, whirlpooled, and DHd beers. We are finding this to be true as we add more hoppy beers to our portfolio.

 

Hop steeps induce more juicy flavor than aroma, but they do increase aroma. This concept becomes obvious when you try to produce a flavorful and reasonably aromatic hop forward beer without dry hopping. Anyone seeking to maximize aroma should try a steep then a dry hop.

If you need to smell your 5 gallon batch of beer from across the room, dump a pound at flameout and dry hop with 6-8oz. Woot..woot!

 

Matt (@mattbk),

Thanks for popping in. I hope that the new(ish) brewery is going well!!

I agree 100% with your sentiment of: “…nothing compares to dry hopping.”

You stated: “I also have a theory that there's a "magic ratio" for hops added to boiled, whirlpooled, and DHd beers.”

Do you have any values that you can share?

I too think there is a magic (optimum) value. I really enjoy the levels of flavor and aroma I obtain in my homebrewed IPAs even thought I use modest values compared to what other BAs post.

For example I recently brewed an IPA (5 gallon batch) that was solely hopped with Galaxy hops for flavor and aroma additions:

· 1 once for the last 10 minutes of boil

· 1 ounce for flame out and a 40 minute hop-stand

· 2 ounces for dry hopping: 14 day contact time with hops in a muslin bag weighed down with glass marbles

So, my ratios for this beer are 1:1:2. IMO, my homebrewed Galaxy IPA just ‘pops’ of hop flavor/aroma. More so than any commercially brewed IPAs that I drink including very fresh IPAs at local brewpubs (and I have some very, very high quality brewpubs near me).

I am uncertain what the aspects of batch size plays into this matter but I suspect that a 5 gallon batch and the dimensions and aspect ratio of a 7.9 gallon bucket fermenter would introduce ‘factors’ vs. commercial scale brewing.

Anyway, any additional information you could provide would be appreciated.

Cheers!

Jack

@Peter_Wolfe

 

If you want to experience a pro beer with good aroma and no dry hops, try Alesmith Evil Dead Red or your homebrew hero Jamil's beer known as Heretic Evil Twin which was inspired by the Alesmith beer. I've had both fresh and would have assumed they were both dry hopped if I didn't know they weren't.

 

Are you sure? Diacetyl tastes like butterscotch...DMS is more like cooked cabbage/corn

 

He meant to say cooked corn. Really, he did.

 

Doh!! I screwed up my post. Yes the beer sample that was doctored with DMS tasted of creamed corn to my palalte.

Barry, thanks so much for catching that!!

You can read more here:http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/american-hell.315469/#post-3894962

Cheers!

Jack

P.S. Have you ever attended an NHC?

 

It's also worth noting JH claims to have a very low threshold for detecting diacetyl. At this point, one wonders how he could so easily mistake DMS for diacetyl.

 

No, but have come awful close the last 2 years...was in both Grand Rapids and San Diego. I wish they would hold the conferences in Fresno or Detroit so I could sit indoors without thinking I was missing something : )

One of these years. Cheers

 

Next year is Baltimore.

Cheers!

 

Baltimore is the best place in the USA for conventioneers to score H and eat crab. This is a fact that can not be disputed.

 

Don't forget Legionnaires' Disease and urban riots!

I am familiar with ALL CAPS, but what does the underlining signify? : )

 

Gotta stick up for Charm City at least a little. Philly was the birthplace of Legionnaires'

 

Same thing as all caps but it's intended to be less douchey than capslock. It signifies emphasis on the word the in an ultimate manner. Italics and bold would have the same meaning. Is this your first day on the internet?

 

Nice try : )

I pride myself on being somewhat of an iconoclast when it comes to the internet...restrained use of all caps is similar to italics/bold/underlining...a lot of people don't read so well and it helps them pick out emphasis...smiley faces are similar in that some folks take everything too seriously

 

There were riots in Oakland about 5-6 months before the 2009 NHC was there.

 

Just to be clear here.

the is pronounced as thuhh - aka the standard pronunciation of the

the is pronounced as thee - signifying ultimate status of the thing after the word the

For example,

The place to be.
The place to be.
The place to be.

THE place to be.
THE place to be.
THE place to be.
THE place to be.

They all mean the same thing. "Thee place to be". Also known as the best place to be. The examples were arranged in the order of least douchey to most douchey.