Rest of Deutschland Bier bought and drunk

"German Pilsner" is also not really one type of beer (I would say there are at least 3 different types).

 

Okay, I'll take the bait... Bavarian, Northern, and... Fernseher?

 

I can get behind this. How would you classify Notch's pils? Described from their website below...

Notch Session Pils salutes the unfiltered pale lagers of the Czech Republic: crisp, herbal, and hoppy. The Czech culture is a beer culture - drinking more beer per capita than any other nation. And their beer of choice is the low gravity, unfiltered and unpasteurized Pilsner, known as "workers" or "tap" beer. In the end, Czech Pilsner serves the same function as Brit Session Beer - lower ABV, great flavor, and built for multiple pints.

Beer specs:

STYLE: CZECH LAGER
ABV: 4.0%
CALORIES: 130
MALT: PILS, CARAHELL
HOPS: SAAZ, STERLING
YEAST: LAGER

 

In the Czech language it would be called Světlé Výčepní Pivo. The translation to English would be Pale Lager (Beer).

The update BJCP style guidelines would classify this as a Czech Pale Lager.

There is some good information on contemporary names for Czech Beer on Ron Pattison’s website: http://patto1ro.home.xs4all.nl/czecintr.htm

Cheers!

 

Yeah, but...

I really do understand the differences between Pilsner and Czech lager, but you (Notch) can't go contradicting yourself and not expect us to get confused.

 

“….the differences between Pilsner and Czech lager”

In the Czech Republic only beers brewed in Plzeň are permitted to be labeled as “Pilsener”. For light colored (Pale) lagers brewed in cities other than Plzeň the beers are called either Světlé Výčepní (lower gravity; e.g., 10°) or Světlý Ležák (moderate gravity; e.g., 12°).

Cheers!

 

Notch Pils is a pale schenkbier/schankbier, Pilsner Urquell is a Pilsener Lagerbier, Budejovicky Budvar (Budweiser) is a pale Lagerbier (possibly a Budweiser Lagerbier in an historical context). The Czech system of classifying their beers wont make much sense unless one acknowledges the historical division between schenk and lagerbier on the one hand, and the Austrian-Hungarian system of taxation introduced in 1855 which taxed beer per gravity point in degrees plato. The Pilsener Lagerbier was notably lower in OG typically than either the Munich or Vienna Lagerbiere, hovering around a typical gravity of 12% Plato. The schenkbier of Bohemia was typically in the 10% Plato tax bracket, which allowed the brewer to brew a beer of between 10-10.9% plato and still pay the same tax.

Here's two analyses from 1898 showing the schenkbier/schankbier and lagerbier brewed by Bürgerliches Brauhaus in Pilsen:



Their Schankbier is brewed to 10.92% Plato, within the 10% tax bracket which made up the outmost majority of beer sales in Bohemia in the latter part of the 19th century (and still does to this day) with their Lagerbier brewed to 12% Plato (the equivalent of today's PU), thusly in the 12% tax bracket and belonging to the (albeit fleeting) lagerbier class.

For comparison here is the statistics for beer production in Austria Hungary in the year 1880:

Vertically you have the regions, Böhmen representing Bohemia, on the horizontal you have the tax brackets for beers of a certain degree plato starting with 6% all the way up to 20%. The outmost majority of beer produced in Bohemia was in the 10% tax bracket with some production in the 11-12% tax brackets (encompassing gravities between 11-12.9%, i.e typical/classical Bohemian lagerbier strenghts). One can compare this with the numbers for Niederösterreich, encompassing Vienna and Dreher's brewery there, where there is also a dominance of the 10% class, but where there is a healthy amount of 13% (13-13.9%) beer being brewed also, i.e the classical Vienna lagerbier strenght.

 

North German: hoppy, bitter, dry (Jever, Flensburger....);
Sauerland / Middle German: dry, a lot less bitter (Warsteiner, Krombacher ....);
South German: more malty, slight sweetness (many Pilsners from Bayern & B-W).

Liked your original "third Pilsner" better, even if "Fernseher" is also nice.

 

Yup, in some regions they still make hoppy Pilsners.

Eric Toft of Private Landbraueri Schönram (located in Bavaria) seems to be turning ‘back the hands of time” and increasing hopping rates.

Below is an extract from the book For the Love of Hops by Stan Hieronymus:

“Toft, a Wyoming native …Since he has taken over as brewmaster at Private Landbraueri Schönram in 1998 he has gradually made the recipes his own, increasing hopping rates 10 to 15 percent on average, going against a trend in Germany. Brewery sales have more than doubled, again bucking a national trend.

Schönramer Pils, brewed with lower alpha aroma hops throughput, won medals at the European Beer Star competition in 2009, 2010, and 2011, and the World Beer Cup in 2012.

Cheers!

 

See, I was right!

But honestly, I've only ever noticed the stronger, somewhat more bitter in the North and the crisper body and softer malt with good herbal hoppiness in the South. I imagine there's a "blending" demarkation point somewhere in there -- and Pilsners I've had from the Northeast start to resemble Bohemian style in their body and hop character.

 

Unfiltered, 4%abv. beers are rare in cz- usually they use the 12 oder 14 degree versions, and they usually do not simply not filter it, they kind of bottle or keg referment it with yeast(but not always, nowadays esp. by bigger brewers, simply unfiltered beers also are marketed as kvasnicove..). Those beers are usually called kvasnicove pivo, and mostly are only kegged. (a translation would be "yeasty beer").so may guess would be, while in the czech republic, you would order this beer by saying"Jedno destinka kvasnicove,prosim!"

Aigan, there is not simply one Budejovicky Budvar. There are 2 classic pale filtered ones, a Světlý Ležák with 5% abv and a Světlé Výčepní with 4% abv. The latter is more popular in its native country, while the former is popular in export markets. Both are also kegged as a kvasnicové. In colloquial speach, the weak one would be a destinka (ten) while the stronger would be a dvanactka (twelve), which is also how you would order them in a pub which has both. Most people outside the czech republic seem to forgett that both strength, or even more, are still brewed-in different colors

I'd like to add, there is also a "Franconian Style"Pils- as malty as bavarian, almost,if not often as, hoppy as northern Pils! "Commercial examples": Huppendorfer Pils, Gampertbräu Förster Pils, St. Georgen Bräu Buttenheim Pilsner...

 

Like i said, at least 3 .....

 

Tony (@boddhitree) posted a very nice review of Gampertbräu Förster Pils.

An extract from his review:

“Overall: You could call this the herbste or hoppiest beers I've had from the Franken area. It really lays on the hops but I feel it could be stronger towards the Pils malt sweetness. If you like a hoppy beer, not an IPA-hoppy, but a pure Noble hopped beer with spiciness, peppery-ish, a little grassiness, and very robust bitterness, but that still doesn't even go near "over the top" and stays within a gemütlich bitterness zone, and you're needing too much pils malt sweetness, then here's your beer. It's not a Northern German Pils, for it still rounds the flavor and softens the bitterness bite with splashes of bready, toasty, dare I say crackery sweet Pils malt.”

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/6020/121063/

Cheers!

 

Talking about the differences between 10 degree and 12 degree, Kvasnicové and Nefiltrované, Pilsner and Pale Lager, Světlý Ležák and Světlé Výčepní. We've come a long way!

 

They are rare, but they are wonderful. It took a lot of research when I was there to understand the difference between Kvasnicové and Nefiltrované, and I'm not sure the true Kvasnicové method is being employed by larger brewers (selling unfiltered as such). I brewed a Kvasnicové version of our Session Pils (which is Nefiltrované) and the difference is subtle yet noticeable.

You are right, we wrote that 5 years ago, and it tries too hard to hold consumers hands through the description. We were up against many preconceived notions of the monolithic PILSNER. It's difficult trying to get consumers (even brewers) to understand the difference in traditional strengths, never mind the difference between pilsner and pale lager.

 

You have a captive audience right here in this forum! Bring us more of all of it!

 

The problem is how the hell do you pronounce světlý ležák?

 

Very carefully!?!

Bada bing!!

Cheers!

 

Glad you could chime in, I should have tagged you, but I forgot (too much beer).

So, what style do you consider your Notch Pils?

Also, best of luck on the brew pub in Salem. I hope there's tours so I can take pictures of an American brewer using decoction mashing for @steveh.

 

I don't know, but welcome back!