King Henry's Whale Status ?

I know I was involved with killing 2 bottles at Monks.

 

i only have 1 bottle of the 3 philosophers and haven't tried it yet, so that's not for trade. i too am on a trading hiatus (less hunahpu and if i can land a black note/top wants)

 

King Henry was aged in the barrels for 6 months to a year. Rare was aged for 2 years. For each year spent in the barrel, a batch of beer can lose up to a few gallons to evaporation.

 

That actually supports the idea that there was more KH than Rare, since KH would have less yield loss (assuming the same number of barrels).

Whatever the case, KH is great.

/Send me more

 

Never considered that happening with beer...definitely interesting to think about.

 

My bottle was 11758... so 12k would be reasonable

 

Cheers to this!!! I saw a post on here the other day...(best beer collection) I'm all for aging beers for certain intervals but theyre not star wars characters that you don't take out of the box and just stare at on your shelf! It's beer, drink it! To many folks are getting caught up with (rare) beer and then you see a comment like..."it's so hard to pull the trigger on this __. It's beer, drink it! If not...don't buy it then stare at for two years and then trade it once half the flavors have fallen off, leave it on the shelf for someone who wants too...shocker...drink it!

 

King Henry is not a wHale - Stewie
Why are you putting so much emphasis on the "H"? -Brian
What are you talking about? I'm just saying wHale - Stewie
Say "Wheat" - Brian
Wheat - Stewie
Now say Whale - Brian
wHale - Stewie
Whale! - Brian
wHale! - Stewie

​

 

Nicely done.

 

Throatwarbler Mangrove

 

he's a train wreck but incredibly entertaining

 

Who is?

 

might have mis-intrepeted your earlier post - thought that you were talking about drewba's avatar (Gary Busey)

 

that's how i read it too, which is why i found jcb's response so funny.

 

The joys (spoils) of the new forum format.

 

A few things to consider:

• Despite the fact that 12,000 were bottled and it was "off the shelf" this is a beer that will truly never be made again. It was aged in the same Pappy Van Winkle 23 barrels as Rare. PVW was purchased by Buffalo Trace, so if GI is able to obtain the barrels again they won't be the same, PVW won't be the same--and Rare would also have to be made again to get the same characteristics. If GI ever makes Rare and KH again they won't be the same beers.
• Initial bottle counts are usually a good measurement. However, with every bottle of KH that is popped, it becomes rarer. I'm sure that Bells will release Black Note again (and probably increase the bottle count), and KtG is an annual release, whose bottle counts steadily increase (not much but they are increasing). An argument can be made that these two, rarer beers are becoming more available. I just used Black Note and KtG as examples, but that can be said for many other beers considered "whales." In contract, KH's availability slowly decreases.

 

i would bet a handsome sum of money the following things:

• pvw bourbon vs. high-end buffalo trace bourbon is indistinguishable for 50+% of craft drinkers.
• gi bcbs aged in its normal barrels for 2 years, in a blind taste test, would be indistinguishable from rare for 75+% of craft drinkers (read what flowering praise is given to infected beers and you'll realize most people don't know wtf they're putting in their mouth)
• king henry made from second-fill rare and second-fill normal bcbs barrels would be indistinguishable for an even higher percentage of craft drinkers.

the more ' things ' you do to a barrel, the more you need a truly exceptional palate to pick it out. this fantasy that certain beers are one-offs because the barrels are unavailable again is something that has emerged only in recent years (months, actually) from people that now think themselves enlightened spirits drinkers because they ticked the eclipse horizontal. early vintages of bcbs used different barrels from later ones, but you don't see anyone making a big deal of the difference. same for ba blackout and other brands.

when a stout (and a second-fill barleywine) are that big, they bring a lot to the barrel on their own. we're not talking about some thin, shitty stout that needs the barrel to carry it.

it makes me cringe when people think king henry is a one-off, because i doubt a recreation of it will taste all that different to most people. this is a hugely successful, high-margin beer for a company now fully owned by america's most profits-driven beer company. it won't be made again? naive much?

btw, greg hall's promise that .rar was a one-off may not hold with the company changing ownership. or it may still do so, but maybe they'll release another high-end bcbs under a different name (i'm guessing bcbs wale or bcbs flavorgasm). the bean counters at a-b are going to be thrilled with the prospect of a 20,000-bottle release that sells for as much as, or more than, small-batch bourbon bottles that have been aged for several times as long, yet people buy it by the caseful. it's a high-volume, high-margin product. their accountants will go through entire pallets of kleenex over this.

 

While in some regard I agree with this statement, there are distinct differences at least at extremes. Upland barrel ages their winter warmer every year in a different barrel and the Wild Turkey barrel this year is definitely horrible and not remotely close to how good it was the past few years.

 

@bold,

for the most part i agree (especially with the extremely overstated nature of BAs "appreciation for the subtleties of different barrels being used" as if brand of bourbon were even close to the top factor in what barrel aging does to a beer).

however, that very same silly fantasy might be milked, especially if "1 off" itself means more demand. i'd guess they wouldn't release king henry 2.0 for many years, but in that time they'll release several facsimiles that are themselves "unique".

incidentally, while this is all kind of sleazy, it's nowhere near as sleazy as most of the things that bother us sword waving anti-capitalists about big corporations or corporate beer. what i care about, beer-wise, is that the competitors don't get crushed, and that world class beer (barrel aged and otherwise) continues to be affordable, even if some of it isn't. doesn't bother me that some guy in chicago is jerking off to a pic of pappy van winkle or whatever.

 

ya, i alluded to that in my last paragraph about rare. king henry 2.0 might not be called king henry, but there's no freaking way goose island is not planning another barrel-aged barleywine, either first-fill or second-fill. if they don't, someone else will, and they want that money.

but i honestly think they'll capitalize on the brand name. that's why movie studios love reboots and sequels: they are known quantities. stick with a recipe that works and has sold in the past, and a-b will take much of the risk out of the equation. i'm sure the wide release of blue moon specialty (whatever it was called) showed the larger beer companies that they can't just market whatever. so their steps into this arena may be more timid than you think.

whatever the case, i think the people holding on to king henry hoping it'll be a wale are the ones who are going to be most upset about this.

masterski! he's on to you!