eBay and Beer Sales

It's not necessarily about ego, some people just like to collect things, it's more about the hunt than it is about the actual objects. People will collect anything, Elvis plates, pez dispensers, pens, magazines, egg timers, newspapers, tools, games, whatever. Beer is no different than any of these other things, if there's an object that comes in many variations people will collect it, particularly if some of those variations are difficult to obtain.

If people here think that someone who has a cellar with thousands of rare bottles in it that they're never going to drink isn't a collector then they're fooling themselves.

 

Precisely. An uncirculated coin vs. a circulated one.

What makes something a "collectible" is something that was once of utility. The reason the original Kenner Stars Wars action figures are so collectible now, especially in still-factory sealed condition, is because they were so popular when they came out - i.e. many of them were actually taken out of the packaging and played with.

Collecting is closely related to nostalgia. Many of those who became collectors of Star Wars action figures, for example, did so because it brought back pleasant memories from their youth, their past. This isn't true for everyone and everything, of course, but in many cases it is; collectors of classic video games, to illustrate - many got into collecting them because of the enjoyment these games brought to them when they were younger.

Obviously, most craft beer enthusiasts aren't yet ready to feel nostalgic for anything craft beer related, and so the collectibility shifts to "beginnings" and "firsts." The first beers produced and released by a brewery, before they hit it big, so to speak, or the first year of Dark Lord, of Darkness, or even of Bruery's 12 Days of Christmas.

Stone Vertical Epic 02.02.02 is, by most accounts, undrinkable now, and yet it still commands a premium. It's a first, that's why. And, be assured that a full, unopened Vertical Epic 02.02.02 will always be significantly more valuable than one that has been opened (and the contents have been consumed), regardless of the quality (or lack thereof) of the contents.

 

I do not see how people can make the argument that they are "worthy"/"entitled" or "deserve" beer that is not available to them as much or seemingly more than those who are inside the availability window. I can walk down the street and buy it, you can't. You cannot obtain the beer through legal channels, I can.

OH WAIT! I finally got it. I want the beer so that means I am just as deserving of that beer as anyone for that reason. Because someone is willing to piss of the producers and makes it available to me means I am just as deserving as anyone.

A little bit of truth here. If you cannot walk into a store and purchase the beer yourself you are not as deserving of that beer as someone who can. You were never intended to have access to the beer. There is plenty of beer you have access to you that others don't, you are more deserving of that. Lets stop making justifications just because they benefit us.

Edit: It is a good thing some BAs are not judges in child custody cases. "Your Honor, I do not know the father, I have not slept with the mother, this child is of no relation to me but I kinda like the little guy and since I like him I deserve custody".

 

I guess I just don't understand the whole collecting thing. If I can't use it, or it doesn't benefit me, then why the hell do I need it. My grandmother-inlaw likes some depression aged glass. I think it's just gaudy glass that really serves no purpose. You don't eat off of it, you don't do shit with it but put it in a cabinet or a box with some newspaper in it. They'll rave about how they bought this glass for $80 at a flea market

At some point, people fail to realize that most of their shit will be worth nothing, but I guess I can understand the whole "hunt" and everything that goes with it, makes it enjoyable no matter the outcome.

Really though, I doubt many people have beer cellars that they have people come gawk at anyways. Or better yet, that people would understand the madness involved it making a huge deal about it. It's more or less for people on this site only to make a big deal about what they've "collected" or "hoarded". Whichever you choose to call it.

 

There are resalers that provide legal channels. What is this "availability window"? That's a really loose justification. How far is this window? What if I could drive there in an hour? A day? A road trip? A flight for a release? You're drawing arbitrary lines.

You haven't actually said why the local individuals are more "entitled." All you are doing is mocking the idea that "non-locals" might be just as "entitled."

Why? You just keep repeating your conclusion in different ways without support. And lol @ that these justifications benefit me. I've never even bid on an eBay beer in my life, let alone posted one for sale.

I truly have no idea where you are going with this.

Your post is a tiny bit of explanation and a whole lot of fist-shaking and borderline name-calling. Your position is not as eminently obvious as you seem to think it is.

 

I haven't read through all the posts, so forgive me if I'm misunderstanding something here. But I'm not sure that baseball cards or similar collectibles ever had utility, except in maybe some asthetic sense.

The Stone example is an interesting one, but of course it's not a common occurrence.

 

Based on your previous statement I used the term "local" as someone inside of the distribution area. These people can walk in to the store and by the beer, this is why they are "entitled" to the beer if it is available. A non-local, someone outside of the distribution area, cannot do this and their claim that they are just as deserving seems a bit silly. If you cannot obtain the beer on your own how are you entitled to it?

These are not arbitrary lines. If you happen to make a trip and can by it yourself then by all means you have a right to that beer. If you can buy the beer from a legit online retailer, you have a right to the beer.

My point is too many people who cannot get the beer for themselves from a legal source seem to try to manipulate logic to make it seem like they are just as deserving. Maybe I missed the point, it seemed to me you were arguing that someone whose only access to a beer is through ebay or trading is just as "entitled" to a beer as someone who has legal access.

 

Edit: It is a good thing some BAs are not judges in child custody cases. "Your Honor, I do not know the father, I have not slept with the mother, this child is of no relation to me but I kinda like the little guy and since I like him I deserve custody".[/quote]


So for Beer Traders it would be "Your Honor, I do not know the father, I have not slept with the mother, this child is of no relation to me , but I know some guy who knew the father and he says he has so damn many kids that he would want to swap one out for one of my little bastards" (Plus some extras, Woody Allen would be "All about" young female extras )

 

A thread doesn't really get good until "Young Female Extras" come out.....

 

Really when it comes down to it, brewers should be as opposed to trading as they are to Ebay sales. In both cases the quality control cannot be assured due to distribution outside of normal channels.

 

Yet your the one commenting on my posts... if my original post added nothing, why reply genius?

 

Man, nothing signals the death of a thread more than the pejorative use of "genius".

 

The (theoretical) difference between trading and ebaying is in the mindset of the folks doing it. One is (again, theoretically) full of beer advocates and aficionados who would do anything in their power to keep the beer at optimal conditions and trade it respectfully with other like-minded individuals. The other is lousy with profiteers who's interest, first and foremost, is making a buck. </gross simplification of the difference>

Black + White = Grey, YMMV, and so on.

 

Ebay's policy page hasn't changed. Anyone know what the takedown notice looks like or how they justify it? I am a little sad I probably will never get to try Blabaer now. :-/

 

"Utility" wasn't the best choice of words. What I meant is that, for the most part, something that is now a (true) collectible is so because it had been a popular item - for its respective function. That is, the first Star Wars toys were used as toys, silver dollars were used as currency, comic books were (waaaay back when) used as humorous reading material, Barbie dolls were used as play dolls, etc. This is why the condition of collectibles is so significant, because the more popular the item was (originally), the rarer it is to find in unused or unopened condition.

Things that are "manufactured" collectibles, i.e. made for the purpose of collecting, aren't really, to me, collectibles. Modern era comic books aren't actually read, they're purchased and immediately stored away. Commemorative plates are not used to eat on, they're purchased and either displayed or stored away.

Craft beer will fit into the former category, insofar as the beer bottles are used for their function - they're opened and the contents are consumed.

In the early 21st century, who would've thought to keep a comic book tucked away, unread? In the early 80's, who would've thought to keep the Jedi action figure inside its packaging? In the late '80's, who would've thought to keep a video game inside its box? In the mid 2000's, who would've thought to leave that bottle of Dark Lord 2004 sealed and unopened?



I consider Stone Vertical Epic 02.02.02 to be one of the earliest examples of a craft beer collectible, and I gave it as an example to illustrate how, in this context, there already indeed exists "collectible" unopened craft beers.

 

Dear xxxxxxx,

You recently listed the following auction-style listing:
xxxxxxxxx

Unfortunately, we had to remove your listing because of the following:

You listed craft beer. Craft beer (or beer from a microbrewery) is generally sought after for its contents and not for the bottle so we have made the decision not to allow it on the site. Please do not list any more craft beer.

We understand that it is a frustrating situation to have your item removed from eBay, especially if you have seen other listings like yours on the site. If you do come across any other items that are the same or similar to yours, and you feel that they are in violation of our policies, please report them to us using the "report item" link on the listing page.

Specific information replaced by "xxx" and bold added for emphasis.

 

Thanks. Very interesting. ISO: Blabaer FT: 10 less rare beers.

 

the stone example is absolutely a common occurrence. if people were honest, i'm fairly sure they would place the % of "highly valued still-traded beers that are over the hill" at very high. i would even guess that > 50% of older-than-a-year barrel aged beers are a shadow of what they were when released.

 

I mean, I don't know the subjective motivations of the buyers, but I think they want to taste (and share) the old/rare beers. They may suspect that the beer they are getting is over the hill, and you would think that factors into the price. But, the impression I'm getting here is that the 2/2/2 Vertical Epic is being purchased as a collectible to be held onto (for its historical significance, projected future value, etc.) rather than to be consumed. Conversely, I would think most of even the likely over-the-hill beers are bought to be consumed.

 

I think most people looking for Stone 2/2/2 right now are looking to drink it as part of the vertical this December.