1318 London III - Over-attenuation

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by mike312, Sep 14, 2015.

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  1. mike312

    mike312 Initiate (0) Apr 23, 2013 New York

    Has anyone had experience with 1318 over attenuating? I brewed a blonde with 48% Pils, 48% 2-Row, and 4% carapils, mashed at 152 for 1.050 OG. After 3 days at 68 F, it was at 1.020 and I moved it to 71. 8 days into fermentation, SG is at 1.004!

    Tasted it, and it is good: mild bready esters, toast from the pils, but no funk or signs of infection. It does have some phenols reminiscent of a Hef, but not unpleasantly so. No fusels or harsh notes. This is 2nd generation, harvested from a 1.06 OG IPA that fermented clean, ~75% attenuation.

    Anyone had experience with this? I haven't brewed with a hef strain or a belgian wit or abbey strain, so not sure how cross-contamination would have worked. Not especially worried given the taste and smell, but a bit alarmed as to whether the ridiculous attenuation is the result of mutation or cross-contamination.
     
    #1 mike312, Sep 14, 2015
  2. invertalon

    invertalon Pooh-Bah (2,249) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    You sure your hydrometer is reading correctly?

    I only ask because when I brewed a IIPA with US-05 I ended up (at what I thought) was 1.004. But when I did a calibration in distilled water at 60F my hydrometer read .004 too low... So now I adjust and add .004 to any reading. So my FG was actually 1.008 and not 1.004... Which is still quite dry for a IIPA, but better than infection! Most people assumed I had an infected batch from the 1.004 I reported on this forum, you will probably get the same. Check the calibration to be sure!

    Did the FG remain the same at 1.004 when checked a few days apart? Or did you only check once?
     
    #2 invertalon, Sep 14, 2015
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  3. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I have talked with a couple homebrewers who have experienced high attenuation numbers with second and third gen conan strains.
     
    #3 SFACRKnight, Sep 14, 2015
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  4. mike312

    mike312 Initiate (0) Apr 23, 2013 New York

    Just calibrated, it's on. The more I think about, the more I think the twang tastes a bit like a saison (which would explain the low SG/high attention of 90%+). I've used 3711 before. That said, I had a healthy starter of 1.5 l (6g batch) that smelled like 1318...top cropped and did NOT smell like a saison. I'm hesitant to believe I have a contamination issue...
     
    #4 mike312, Sep 14, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
  5. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    Fermenting in plastic? Could be that. It's happened to me, many time. Switch to glass, never have the problem again. Also replace any and all rubber components and transfer hoses, and continue to replace them every 12-18 months.
     
    #5 dmtaylor, Sep 14, 2015
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  6. mike312

    mike312 Initiate (0) Apr 23, 2013 New York

    Yes, plastic. Perhaps I'm naive, but I'm surprised to see the fermentation profile come out so pleasant if there is an infection. If I'm dealing with an infection, it's another sacc strain. Given my robust starter, I would have thought I could have snuff'd that out...Increasingly thinking there was a saison strain in a scratch, but 90% attention can only come from so many strains in a week, let alone without spoiling the beer...
     
    #6 mike312, Sep 14, 2015
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  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Are you referring to fermenting in plastic buckets? Why would that be an issue?

    Cheers!
     
    #7 JackHorzempa, Sep 14, 2015
  8. mike312

    mike312 Initiate (0) Apr 23, 2013 New York

    Yes, plastic buckets and carboys are susceptible to scratches. The best sanitize in the world is still going to have a tough time rooting a bug from a scratch. Unlikely, but very possible.
     
    #8 mike312, Sep 14, 2015
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  9. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    1318 attenuates 71-75%. Your batch attenuated 92%.

    1318 does not produce noticeable phenol. Your batch produced phenol at a warm fermentation temperature.

    Sounds like an infection to me. The good news is infected beer can taste fine.
     
    #9 Brew_Betty, Sep 14, 2015
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  10. mike312

    mike312 Initiate (0) Apr 23, 2013 New York

    I would tend to agree, except 68 with a ramp to 71 is not especially warm. I have temperature control, so there were no swings... Simply, 1318 cannot do 90%, so it is what it is. I guess it is not a belgian golden ale instead of an american blonde :slight_smile:
     
    #10 mike312, Sep 14, 2015
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    That has not been my personal experience. I have been homebrewing for over 20 years solely using plastic buckets. I have used the same plastic buckets for over a decade. I have never had an infection over my 356 batches.

    Plastic buckets work just fine with proper care and attention.

    Cheers!
     
    #11 JackHorzempa, Sep 14, 2015
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  12. mike312

    mike312 Initiate (0) Apr 23, 2013 New York

    Never had an issue myself, so I'm a bit baffled...that is in ~30 batches.
     
    #12 mike312, Sep 14, 2015
  13. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    I have 10+ year to old fermentation bucket that I've never had an issue with. Ease of cleaning and use are too big of pluses to me to ever switch to glass.

    I also wanted to add that you might be hitting the panick button too quick on a beer that is 8 days old. A spitter out of the fermentation bucket might be heavenly manna given a couple weeks and carbonation.
     
    #13 scottakelly, Sep 14, 2015
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  14. dmtaylor

    dmtaylor Savant (1,149) Dec 30, 2003 Wisconsin

    I have about a dozen old buckets that anyone who wants them can have, with permanent Lacto and Pedio infections, etc. no matter what sanitizers I used. Free for the taking. Oh, and uh, sorry, I didn't keep the hoses... for exactly the same reasons. Only reason I still have the buckets is for holding manure, dog toys, etc.
     
    #14 dmtaylor, Sep 14, 2015
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  15. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    I've been looking everywhere for used brew buckets that previously contained manure!
     
    #15 Brew_Betty, Sep 14, 2015
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  16. jae

    jae Initiate (0) Feb 21, 2010 Washington

    1318 has always been a borderline attenuator for me. I usually get ~ 72%.
     
    #16 jae, Sep 14, 2015
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  17. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    I was using 1318 before it became a thing. I also stopped using it before it became a thing.
     
    #17 Brew_Betty, Sep 14, 2015
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  18. mike312

    mike312 Initiate (0) Apr 23, 2013 New York

    Thanks for the feedback. Clearly, I've had some sort of infection. Considering what is evidently saison-like notes, I have to go with the bucket because I don't think I've used that bucket since my last saison and all other cold-side gear was used for other beers that came out fine.
     
    #18 mike312, Sep 14, 2015
  19. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I bet you don't like music.
     
    #19 SFACRKnight, Sep 14, 2015
  20. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    I like music you've never heard of.
     
    #20 Brew_Betty, Sep 14, 2015
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