Northeast Pales/IPA/DIPA

Have you ever considered doing a split batch between something like 1318 and the Chico strain, a la @SFACRKnight? Something to try to pin down what is the driving force behind these types of IPAs? Same malt bill, same processes, just different yeast strains -- ideally, that'd really get at whether this is primarily a yeast issue, or whether there's something else at play?

 

That's next on my brew list right now. I'm going to use a base similar to @OldSock with flaked oats instead of oat malt a la hellion or lawsons double sunshine clone. I'm still determining the hop schedule, but it's gonna read like 0.000005 oz @ 60, 1,000,000 oz @ flameout.

 

My friend Scott brought growlers of a batch he split between Conan and 1318 to a club meeting a few weeks ago. Even those tasted distinctly different. The 1318 was much softer, less "hop driven" than the Conan, which surprised me.

I tend to not want two similar beers on tap, but I'm sure I'll get around to it eventually. S-04, 007, and 644 would be another three that would be fun one to throw into the mix! I suspect it is a combo of yeast and process (i.e., if you cold crash and/or fine/filter before dry hopping the differences would be less distinct because you are reducing the role that biotransformation almost certainly plays).

 

I agree that biotranformations are going to play a role here, and will be dryhopping in primary after 1 week of fermentation in hopes that the differences will be more readily apparent with yeast in suspension. I may even add an addition at high krausen just to see what it adds in yet another split batch.

 

For this batch I added two ounces of "dry hops" before the yeast to really push it. Interested to pull a sample before my usual addition goes in at 72 hours. By a week fermentation should be wrapped up?

 

Wow! That is a novel idea.

I have never heard of adding hops prior to pitching yeast.

Has any commercial brewery done this to your knowledge?

@Peter_Wolfe

Cheers!

 

Dry hopping in/right before primary (active fermentation) certainly changes the flavors you will get, that's how you get that blueberry flavor out of mosaic. While primary might drive off a lot of the aromas, the flavors you get from the interaction with the yeast are worth it and I think is something not much explored. You can then add your traditional dry hop for your flavor and aromas as well.

 

Hmm, I'm interested in that too. My last (2) IPAs I've let chill overnight to get to pitching temp anyway. Seems like a novel time to add hops! I guess fermentation would 'blow off' some of the aromatics, but not all!

 

For this current experiment I want to focus on fermentation differences between two strains, but the next split batch will involve changing things around dryhop additions and timing. Maybe one getting dryhopped @ pitching vs a week in.

 

@telejunkie was the OG and FG a small typo? If I put those into brewcipher I get closer to 6%? ABV

 

1.060 to 1.013 should get you less than 6.6%, even with the improved formula.

 

Sorry I botched the wording. It got me a lot lower, thus the reason I thought the article was inaccurate

 

I saw the same thing as soon as I looked at that article. A 1.060 beer with 75% app att should only be 6.0% ABV, to hit 6.6% ABV the FG would have to be in the single digits. IIRC BYO uses a program that assumes 75% app att for as its standard.

 

I'm fermenting (day 3) split batch right now with 1318 in one and Nottingham in the other. I plan to add my dry hops tomorrow on day 4 as I have the last couple of batches. What I struggle with as far as process goes is in regard to cold crashing/dry hopping at 65-70 temps. I usually cold crash the primary on day 8 so I can transfer out my spigot easily to my 2nd stage dry hop keg. I then warm that back up to 65-70 and dry hop under a little pressure for 4-5 days in the keg. I then do another closed circuit transfer to the serving keg. But before doing that I have to cold crash to make sure I don't clog the dip tube. So it seems like a lot of temp variation throughout and I don't know if I'm doing any harm to it that is measurable. I could just leave more beer behind on each transfer with higher dip tubes and spigots and not cold crash but seams like a waste. Anyone else figure this out?

 

Hey jlordi...yeah, good catch. Not sure how that happened, maybe a plato to SG conversion mistake (?), but our calculator comes up with 6.4% ABV with those numbers (as vikeman alluded, we do use the 'improved' ABV calculation which takes the effects of ethanol on SG readings into account).
I would boost your OG a point or two...that should get you to 6.6. Best of luck!

PS...this week put the Mexican Radio clone, Fort Point clone & Dinner clones on tap at my house (already have TenFIDY clone on tap)...so far they've been great. Taking 2nd kegs of the Fort Point & Dinner to a friend's wedding this weekend...so glad they both came out as good as they did.

 

Haha...now Boston fans know what it's like being a Yankees fan. Haters gonna hate.

Hey justin...I try not to assume any attenuation for a given recipe, basically if there is no specs given for a beer or recipe (we hope every recipe in the mag has been brewed at least once), then have to gauge where the yeast attenuation may fall in it's range based on the ingredients...but that has only happened a couple times since I started doing the recipes back in 2013.

 

CO2 scrubs flavors, so dry hopping before fermentation is pointless in my opinion. I think you are just wasting money because those hops won't add any aroma. By all means give it a shot. The only way to know for sure is to try a split batch one with and one without those pre-primary dry hops.

 

Then by that logic wouldn't flame-out additions be pointless? Sure CO2 scrubs some aromatics, but not all!

 

Sorry I should have been more clear. CO2 scrubs aroma away (not all of it of course), thus why dry hoping is normally done after primary fermentation. Flame-out hops get some heat so they add IBUs and flavor.
My understanding is that if you dry hopped before fermentation you are scrubbing with c02, I'm not sure that is going to "change" hop flavors. Plus you will need to use more hops to produce similar aroma as secondary dry hopping.
Again give it a shot, I'd love to hear I'm wrong because I'm always looking for new ways to use hops.

 

Dry hopping during the tail of fermentation has really improved my IPAs compared to only dry hopping brite beer. It certainly isn't as efficient, but I'd rather add an extra ounce or two of hops to get a "better" hop aroma. The science is that some yeast strains are able to free aglycone molecules bonded to sugars (this is how hops, and many other plants, store and transport them). Yeast are also able to convert some aromatic compounds into others, for example geraniol into citronellol. In general the result is a more integrated, softer, less pellet-y aroma.

Still planning to add my usual additions of dry hops as well to the primary and then keg, just looking to add as much hop character as I can. Considering I'm adding 8 oz total dry hopping, I'm at less than half of what some of these crazy Maine and Trillium beers are brewed with.