eBay and Beer Sales

Wow, this thread is like Jason from Friday the 13th, just when you think it's dead, WHAM another machete to the frontal lobe!

There is one concept discussed that I find particularly interesting (beyond the expected free market vs. "each according to his need" division which has been discussed ad nauseum), that is the concept of $4$ in the beer trading world. Now I must say I have always done $4$ trades with regard to the few trades I've done, but then again I've never hunted whales.

Is it expected that if someone has a whale like "Wooden Hell" or "Dirty Horse" that it be traded $4$ at its original purchase price? Someone expecting any premium would be considered a pariah to the collective? I understand that you could say "rare for rare" in addition to $4$ but I don't believe many peers to those whales exist.

It's just interesting as beer is a collectible to many (especially tickers) in this forum, yet collectors of other goods (like coins) would not harbor the same expectation, say you find a copper penny from 1943 and insist it only has a trade value of 1 cent because it was received in change at its face value.

 

I think people understand that trading a beer like Wooden Hell is not cut and dry. $4$ does not work as well as we would like and as you mention it is hard to match rarity. I do not think beers such as Wooden Hell are the source of most complaints.

The problem is the people who want to turn every new and limited release beer into an insta-wale. The Rares, the King Henry and so on are what are causing the problem. Going $4$ and matching "rarity" on these is very easy, unfortunately people care little about this when they can maximize their return by getting a trading partner to go well over $4$.

 

This again, is an interesting concept, because it allows people to establish themselves as independent arbiters and dictate the value of a collectible (in this case beer) by restricting the rights of others to set the value via the free market (in this case an auction forum such as ebay).

Meaning "As a beer advocate (and or aficionado) who may (or may not) possess specialized knowledge with regard to beer, I have deemed that beers like Wooden Hell and Dirty Horse are far superior due to a set of rules established by myself along with the concurrence of a relatively small peer group (with respect to the general population), again these beers are different than other beers like King Henry, and are there by subject to different treatment allowing the owner to receive a premium for said beers"

"So I can trade my Wooden Hell for a few cases of Heady Topper even though I only paid $9.99 for it, through my society's collective website, but you are forbidden to auction your King Henry through your auction website"

You have to admit this is a bit of a tough argument, as I'll admit we're back once again to beating a dead horse which will not alter anyone's ideology.

My choice regarding ebay is personal, I use it to buy items and save money, like a new battery for my laptop, etc.

I have not purchased beer and would never use it to buy "De Struise Brouwers" beers because I know Urbain is against ebay selling his products and I have a lot or respect for Urbain; therefore, I would respect his wishes. I imagine many who are fans of Russian River and/or Hill Farmstead feel the same way.

My views govern my personal actions, I would never promote limiting others freedom of choice by forcing them to adhere to my ideology, whether that means trying to force BA and RB to close their respective trading forums or by trying to force ebay not to sell beer.

Always liked the "Although I may disagree strongly with your opinion, I will always fight for your right to express it" line of action as in "Although I may disagree strongly with where you choose to trade or sell your beer, I will always support your right to trade or sell it wherever you choose".

 

In a strange way, I'm glad that beer has reached this level of importance. But it sure as hell makes me sad to see how easily people can fetishize any product.

 

What you don't seem to understand is that there is a trading community and an ebay seller community. They aren't the same. Period.

I am in the trading community. I am against ebay as it made it harder for me and traders. Pure selfishness. I don't give a rats ass if my stance and actions are hurtful to the ebay seller community. They don't give a rats ass if their actions and attitudes are hurtful to the trading community. If you think ebay stopping the sale of beer won't be at all helpful to the trading community, you are the ignorant one.

Now, do you want a beer up there?

 

Can't argue there. I trade $4$. Don't trade with those folks out to **** and pillage fellow traders. On ebay there were/are rapers and pillagers, nothing else.

 

Beer trades and ebay transactions are consensual. No ****** please.

 

If someone buys beer on eBay they're consenting to the price, if they don't like the price they don't have to buy.

 

I stopped reading about ten pages ago.

 

You haven't missed much. The ten pages you havent read are just repeats of the first 10 pages. It's been a merry go round of beer trading and ebaying.

 

I personally was never much into sadism and masochism, otherwise known as the act of buying and selling beer on ebay.

 

They are exactly the same. Again, the high and mighty attitude is laughable.

I always love a good assumption in the morning.

 

Forgive me if this has already been stated but the back of T25 explicitly states that the value of the bottle is in its contents and not the container, the container only has value if empty. Kinda interesting to see the ways in which breweries are working on this issue.

 

Exactly my point. Now they won't have that option, and that easy to access agreement and price will not be part of the psyche of traders, and the supply previously destined for ebay's pages might now end up being traded fairly. Shutting down ebay beer sales can only be a good thing for traders.

 

Oh, well you repeated your points, again without any explanations or backing them up in any way. What can I do against such sophisticated debating technique? Yeah I guess for those, like you, who have opinions that they don't even try to back up, those who use the thought processes behind their opinions as a debate technique might seem high and mighty lol.

So, here's your chance to show how traders and ebayers are exactly the same, and smack me down hard with your argument. I'll be looking to read it and get schooled.

 

- to what end?? because those that have access to the beer will have more 'trading power'


While I can't speak for i630 nor do I agree with either of you that ebay and trader's are the same or different, lets be honest I'm sure most if not all the Ebay beer sellers are BA's otherwise they wouldn't have approximate knowledge of the beers, their prices, trends, and releases.

Also, Cave, you mention ebay is profiteers and pillagers, can you not also agree that there are 'traders' that do the same? How many traders do you think attend some releases and purchase their full allotment with intent to trade? Hell, what about mules?? Lets not be oblivious, traders are pretty good rapists too sometimes...

Prices on ebay tend to be $10 to 2x the amount of the beer. If you consider trading for it you would be paying the price of the traded beer, the shipping and materials, cost of extra or swag so its not that huge of a difference...

I'm in Virginia, and with a small burgeoning craft beer scene but no true 'national whales' (just shelf wales, bro) it can be difficult to find people willing to trade even some of the more sought after shelf beers. (Zombie Dust, Pliny, etc...) Community, sharing, and promoting craft beer is preached here but not always practiced, so excluding ebay beer sales decreases my ability to have access to a large range of desirable beers.

Is that a good thing to you?? Limiting my chance to try amazing but not readily available to me beers?? If so I say shame on you....


Rant over, now send me your beer

 

His point was related to your use of the terms "****" and "pillage." Both are things done to an individual or community withouth their cooperation and/or consent. Any one trading, whether for money in an ebay auction or for similar goods on BA is not being either ***** or pillaged.

 

Really, so that was your point? That selling beer on eBay is a consensual and mutually beneficial transaction? Is that what you meant by "rapers and pillagers"? And why is a trade "fair" but an eBay auction "unfair"?

 

This not only to you, but a reply to the general points of mine responded to by you and others.

Look you all know what I mean if not then perhaps I should have used less flowery language, but when a beer is sold for 500.00 that was 10.00 once, it seems from my point of view to be a transaction that will be noted by some. It will not only be noted, but since, as you point out, some of the bottles these ebay sellers used to make their profit came from trading forums, then you yourself make the point right there that the two, ebay and trading, are different, else there could be no profit potential to get from one and profit from the other. So if you are on the fence about whether an auction for profit site is the same as trading bottles for bottles maybe this will sway you to a decision.

My point is the mere existence of ebay beer sellers made a profit mentality more a part of the beer trading scene. My observations of the use of quoted prices by people with whom I have tried to trade is part of what I used to come to the conclusion. The observations of the profit mentality creeping into the scene concurrently with ebay beer selling proliferating is another assumption I used to make my opinion. And my assumption that some bottles previously sold for profit at auction on ebay may now enter the trade market, as well as the previous two points, are my assumptions I used to make the point that I think trading can only get better.

Wanna argue these points, anyone, have at it, I formally retract the **** and pillaging language.

 

I have seen a few posts about people asking for way over $4$ in trades and I really don't see that as a prevalent issue. The biggest issue most people have with the state of the trading world is when traders ask for bona fide wales for every flavor of the month beer. Of course, countless generous and mutually beneficial trades go on between partners and those obviously aren't going to be seen in the ISO/FT forum.

If someone has a Wooden Hell, it makes no sense for them to trade if for way over $4$ of off the shelf stuff as it can be acquired with much lesser beers. I can't count how many "I offered 3 Abyss, 4 Plinys, and 12 KBS for their Framboos which cost them arount €20. What gives?" posts I've read over the years. Unless someone with some wales is hurting for money and just wants to get as much good beer as possible without spending money, I don't see why they would ever take such a deal.