BIAB mash/sparge questions

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by KeyWestGator, Oct 31, 2015.

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  1. KeyWestGator

    KeyWestGator Savant (1,159) Jan 21, 2013 Florida
    Trader

    I've been working on dialing in my process and an issue I currently face is that all of my strike water plus grain will not fit into my 10 gallon kettle. My first few BIAB batches were only 3 or 4 gallons, so no issue, but last time I needed 5 gallons packaged (which I hit perfectly to get a full keg for a party). Knowing that it would not all fit, I held back 2 gallons from the strike, heated to 170, and poured it over the grain bag that I had sitting over the kettle after the mash. I think it worked well, as I got the best efficiency I've gotten yet (67%), though this could also be because I made sure to do a good job stirring when I mashed in. Probably a combo of both, I'll never know.

    So in advance of a brew day on Sunday, my questions are:
    1.) What process do others who BIAB use in this situation? What would you different than I did?
    2.) In doing it this it way, what would be the ideal amount of water to hold out/sparge with? Should it be more like traditional all grain?
    3.) I've heard of dunking the bag in the sparge water instead of pouring over as I did above. Opinions on which is better?
    4.) With acid/salt additions, should I put them all in the mash, or have some in my sparge?

    I'm sure I'll have more questions as suggestions roll in. Thanks.
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If adding salts to change the mash pH, put them in the mash. If adding only for flavor, put them in the kettle after the mash.
     
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  3. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    The more water you withhold, the better your efficiency will be within reason. Double crushing or finely crushing the grain will also boost your efficiency.

    I doubt there's much difference between dunk and rinse. BIAB is all about convenience. Do whichever is easier.

    Salt additions will depend on a number of factors. Software such as Brewcipher (search the forums for it) will be your friend here
     
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  4. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

    http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml
    Check out the 'Can I Mash It' in the link above. It won't solve any problems but will let you know where you are going to stand.

    I do it same as you. Dunking you need another pot for so I don't find it particularly helpful.
     
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  5. KeyWestGator

    KeyWestGator Savant (1,159) Jan 21, 2013 Florida
    Trader

    I do use brewcipher so I'm glad you chimed in @VikeMan. Was gonna tag you in the original post, but knew you'd show up sooner or later to help a brewer in need. Anyway, I didn't ask that question the right way, because while your answer is obvious, I'm not sure how to apply it in reality. I know brewcipher is not necessarily set up for BIAB, so that might be part of the issue. It calculates my strike with the BIAB feature on, but then I end up pulling a couple gallons out so I'm not sure if I should adjust for that. That's kinda where the second part of the original question #2 comes in. Should I just turn it off and use those strike and sparge amounts? My inexperience is probably showing...

    @CurtFromHershey I have access to a mill now, so double crushing is definitely happening. Already planning on it.
     
  6. CurtFromHershey

    CurtFromHershey Initiate (0) Oct 4, 2012 Minnesota

    In brewcipher, turn off the biab option and adjust the mash thickness parameter on the reciper tab until the strike and sparge water volumes are what you're aiming for
     
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  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    C&P'd from the popup comment...
    "If you do BIAB, but do NOT include all your water in the first infusion, select 'N' from the dropdown."

    Given your situation, you might want to set the indicator to "N," then change the Strike Water to Grain Ratio on the recipe tab until all but 2 gallons of your total water are in the strike portion. If that's still too much mash volume for your kettle (and if you have the latest version of Brewcipher), you'll get a warning (assuming you have entered the size of your kettle in the "Mash Tun Capacity" parameter on the Brewhouse tab).
     
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  8. KeyWestGator

    KeyWestGator Savant (1,159) Jan 21, 2013 Florida
    Trader

    That's it! Thanks guys.

    But how come the mash pH calculation doesn't change as I toggle the BIAB (with no other changes)? Just a coincidence with the recipe I currently have input?
     
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Depending on what's in your mash, a change in water volume may not affect your pH enough to move the number, particularly if you're using distilled water.

    ETA: start adding some salts and you'll see the pH change when you toggle BIAB on and off (thus changing the mash water volume).
     
  10. BumpyAZ

    BumpyAZ Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2014 New Jersey

    Here's a few things that I've done to refine my process that I think have helped increase my efficiency (I've gone from mid 60's to 77% on a 1.066 OG pale ale on my last batch):

    Double crush grains (don't have a mill but my LBHS does it for me)
    Insulate the pot during the mash to keep the temp as steady as possible (I've been using some reflectix insulation but I hear old blankets or sleeping bags work well).
    Stir the crap out of the mash after doughing in and then every 15-20 mins
    Before each stiring, I remove 2 full sized drink pitchers of wort from the ball valve on my pot and poor back on top of the mash creating a kind of ghetto recirculation.
    No mash out, just pull the bag and place it on a grill grate resting on top of the pot, then sparge 1-2 gallons of ambient temp water (why have a second burner to heat sparge water, I BIAB to KISS)
    I use a GH/KH water test kit and water chemistry software (been using brewersfriend since I have my recipes there) to calculate my salt additions to hit my target mash pH and water profile. Salts added to the strike water only, none in the sparge.

    Hope that helps, if I think of anything else I'll let you know.
     
  11. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Can just add me to boost the ABV. A friend of mine does all grain with a small mash tun then adds dme to get the desired ABV. If you have a 10 gallon pot you wouldn't need much dme.
     
  12. CrackTheSkye

    CrackTheSkye Initiate (0) Nov 3, 2011 Maryland

    I BIAB in a 7 gallon kettle on a little turkey fryer set up and have run into similar issues. What I do to start is fill my kettle with my water and do all my water treatments there in the beginning. This does limit me to only being able to brew with 7 gallons of water. But I've been doing 1.070 worts and it has worked out fine for that. I use distilled water so I always add salts and acid to drop the ph a little. Then pull off 1 to 3 gallons of water depending on how much grain I have for the recipe. Those 1 to 3 gallons go into a large stock pot I have for cooking and then goes onto to my regular stove top to be heated to mash out temp (170). I know that requires additional equipment but I've found that it really works well. Then I heat my kettle to my strike temp and add my grain. Mash. Then pull the bag and set it in a big colander I found that sits nicely in the top of my kettle. I let the grain bag drip for a while then get my spare sparge water from of the stove and slowly pour it into the colander over the grain. I have to say this part of the process is a little dangerous as you have to handle a heavy pot of hot water. But I've tried batch sparging (or dunking) by pouring the sparge water over the grain in a5 gallon bucket but it was hard to get ALL the water and grain to fit and got a little messy.
     
    #12 CrackTheSkye, Oct 31, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2015
  13. KeyWestGator

    KeyWestGator Savant (1,159) Jan 21, 2013 Florida
    Trader

    @BumpyAZ That's pretty much what I do, minus the "ghetto recirc". I have an extra 5 gallon pot that I use to heat the extra 2-3 gallons on my stove then pour that over my bag that is resting on a grill grate.

    Thanks for all the replies.
     
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