Gose vs Wild Ale

Brett always comes off as sour to me as well. I think it has something to do with how dry it makes the beer combined with the funkiness.

 

I've always understood "wild ale" to be something of an umbrella term for new world sour/funky beers whereas Gose is a specific traditional German style that generally has a defined flavor profile that doesn't deviate a whole lot.

 

Gose has salt and coriander and is basically a sour hefeweizen. Souring techniques also might be different.

 

Gose typically, like a Gratzer, has at least 50% malted wheat in the grain bill. It also is characterized by added salt or salted water and coriander. It's a sour wheat beer with salt. I don't think it's commonly referred to as a wild ale because of two reasons: one, it is kettle soured and two, because of it's more unique sweaty forehead and lemonade flavour profile most brewers don't want it confused with other "wild ales".

 

For me, both of them are sour, but in a different way. Gose is more like a lemon-type of sour, where gueuzes/lambic/wild ales have more funk and the thing people describe as horseblanket/farm. I like both styles by the way, but there is a difference in taste for me.

 

Besides berliner weisse and gose what other "traditional sour wheat beers of Central Europe" are you thinking of? I'm sure that Germany was not the only place in all of central Europe to sour a beer, but I can't think of any other sour styles from the region. I'm just curious... Thanks!

 

I wish I had this problem, first time I tried WBG I drank the sixer in an hour.

 

I've got limited experience with both styles but from reading the comments, I'd venture to suggest this might be a case where two seperate styles are sometimes indistinguishable, and specific batches must be labeled according to the brewers whim, similar to the occasional blurred lines between APA/IPA or DIPA/Barleywine.

 

I actually brewed a gose for Michael Jackson (Leipzig's Ghost), for an event at the University of Pennsylvania, and I talked to him about it. I'd done a sour mash, but he suggested that wasn't totally necessary, that it could just be started with lactobacillus followed by a standard weizen yeast. It should be refreshingly tart, but not sharp. Nor should it be salty! The saltiness is a minor component that should be at or below the level of the spiciness of the coriander. Essentially it's a wheaty, more malty and less sour Berliner weiss with coriander and a mild saltiness. What I've been tasting lately has been over-the-top as far as sourness goes - at least if what Michael said to me was true - but keep in mind, when he first wrote about it he was actually writing about a style that had already been revived and no one really knows what it would have been like "back in the day".

 

That's simply not true. The best one (in my opinion), Ritterguts Gose, definitely tasted like it had Brettanomyces in it when brewed in Leipzig. And one of its closest German relatives, Berliner Weisse, definitely had Brettanomyces. More than that, it needed it to get the right flavour profile.

 

Pretty sure that's not the traditional way of souring Gose. I thought it soured during primary fermentation, much like traditional Berliner Weisse. That's what Schönfeld reckons. And he literally wrote thye book on German top-fermenting styles.

 

Sour and Wild Ale are not the same thing. All Sours are Wild Ales but not all Wild Ales are Sours. I do not believe traditial Gose's are Wild but I could be wrong.

 

All the old descriptions of Gose say that it was incredibly sour. A source from 1927 says: "Gose is a Leipzig speciality. It is similar to Berliner Weiße, but sourer and not to everyone's taste. (Pour the bottle slowly.)" The version revived in the 1980's, brewed in Belin, was very sour and reckoned by locals to taste like the Gose they remembered. I've got the spec sheet for it somewhere. That should have the pH.

 

Well there were/are Broyhan, of course. Berliner Braunbier, Kottbusser, Adambier, Münster Alt, Lichtenhainer, Deutscher Porter and dozens of other local styles.

 

Berliner Weisse is definitely soured in the kettle / read as mash tun. It was naturally soured by the lactobacillus delbruekii which is naturally all over the grain when it comes in from the field. But patto1ro, do you have more information on these styles? Please let me know !!!

 

No, that's not the traditional way. A symbiotic yeast/lactobacillus primary fermentaion is what sours it, followed by a Brettanomyces secondary fermention. There's a wealth of information on the style, if you can read German. "Die Berliner Weisse" a book published not that long ago by the VLB (the brewing institue in Berlin) describes in detail the methods used at different breweries in different periods.

 

Ritterguts never tasted of brett to me. So to each their own. This is not a thread about berlinners.

 

I figured there had to be a bunch of local styles that don't make their way to the US. Thanks.

It would be nice if there were US brewers trying their hand at some of these more obscure and unique beer styles. Personally, I don't dabble in sours often, because I usually think they just taste OK, but I will always jump at an opportunity to try a new beer style, sour or otherwise.

 

Randy, a few months ago I drank a Victory brewed Lichtenhainer at the Brewpub in Downingtown. Below is something I posted previously about this beer:

I enjoyed drinking Victory Lichtenhainer (Alla Spina Arso).

Cheers!

“Alla Spina Arso

Lichtenhainer

Working with famed chef, Marc Vetri, we designed this recipe to be one that is tart and complex. In Italian, Alla Spina means “from the tap,” and that’s how we expect you to enjoy this golden delight.

Composition

Malt: Vienna, Wheat, Rauch, Acidulated

Hops: Tettnang Hallertauer

ABV: 5.3%

Flavor: Smoky aromas of beech wood blend with a hint of tartness in this unique, golden blonde ale. Mildly smoky and malty flavors precede a cracker like saltiness, which melds with tart and inviting sour notes for a pleasingly complex beer.”

 

Cool, I never said gose was traditionally kettle soured, but that's how it's commonly done now. I don't know who Schonfeld is, but thanks for the condescending reply.