"Beware the kettle sour beer"

Yeah, I'm with Jack on this one -- there has to be more biologically in HF saisons that saison yeast/Brett/pH adjustments. They're aged in foeders these days, and I'd be stunned if that house culture doesn't have some extra bugs at play.

 

Fair enough. I don't think they kettle sour or pitch lacto. I am fairly confident you can get close to the profile with something like ECY03 plus pH adjustment:

"ECY03 Farmhouse Brett: A saison blend with a pure Brettanomyces isolate from a small but fascinating producer of Saison. Can produce a funky and acidic farmhouse ale particularly when a secondary fermentable is added"

 

Oh yeah, def no kettle souring -- I should've been clearer on that. I doubt they pitch lacto either -- HF has referred to their bugs as "our resident microflora". I've always assumed that to mean that there's some house variety of bugs in those foeders that help (maybe with pH adjustments, etc.) to give their saisons that natural tartness. Interesting stuff.

 

Mixed fermentation was the old-fasioned way.

 

I agree that a talented brewer can barrel infect/encourage, can use a wild yeast, and can kettle sour with lacto. I'd like to add that as a customer it's all about disclosure. If a brewery markets a "sour saison" but only adds lacto as an infection, I want to know. If the beer's is tasty - I'll drink it regardless. I just think there should be transparency and I can then make the economic decision (to purchase or not) accordingly.

 

I haven't tried any kettle sours, as far as i know. But all that really matters is taste, just like any other style. If you like your Coors Light then drink the hell out of it. If you don't like a beer, then don't drink it.

I get that there is a lot of history and tradition in making aged sours, and I'm sure there are plenty of breweries who ill keep that tradition alive, so I'm not worried about it becoming extinct.

Craft brewing is about innovation and the willingness to try new styles and methods of brewing. Imagine if Ken Grossman made a Pale Ale in the 80's that was just like all other English Pale Ales...

 

Have you tried any of their beer? I am heading to Austin next week and am stopping at Jester King for the first time. Would be interested to check someone else out.

 

I have enjoyed them. There is one that I am not a fan of, but the other 3 were solid. I do think they will have to get all of their consistancy worked out as I have heard some reports of the bee distributed has been hit or miss. I would just go to the taproom (believe their hours are Th-Sunday now).

This spreadsheet/map should help you out:

http://www.craftbeeraustin.com/texas-brewery-brewpub-tour-listings-map/

Other than JK and Blue Owl, hit up Hops and Grain, Austin Beerworks, maybe Zilker (it is right in the same area as Blue Owl/H&G).

 

Interesting...but good to here. I have some bottles from early 2015 that were not tart at all when first purchased and just now starting to sour up. Love their saisons when they get funkified and sour.

 

I know what you're going through - same boat...

 

Last night I had boluvards Tell tale tart for the first time. It was OK but not exceptional. On this site it's listed as a wild ale. I would call it more of a Berliner weiss (though it's 6%, so maybe an imperial Berliner, if that's a thing).

To me, when I hear wild ale I think of wild yeasts doing their thing and taking their time to get both sour and funky. Calling a kettle sour a wild ale is an insult to those great brewers who invested so much time, effort, and experimentation into making a truly wild ale.

Take a peak in the homebrew forum if you want to see what really goes into making a good sour/wild ale.

So great BA's what do u think: is a kettle sour really a wild ale?

 

I have no problem with brewers using a "wild yeast" strain or bacteria and calling it a wild beer. It is however, not a spontaneously fermented beer, or barrel fermented beer which is what those other brewers should focus. Wild, as a word, effectively means nothing at the end of the day.

How it's categorized on BA, I don't really care either, but here's the description. "Sometimes Belgian influenced, American Wild Ales are beers that are introduced to "wild" yeast or bacteria, such as: Brettanomyces (Brettanomyces Bruxellensis, Brettanomyces Lambicus or Brettanomyces Anomolus), Pediococcus or Lactobacillus. This introduction may occur from oak barrels that have been previously inoculated, pitched into the beer, or gained from various "sour mash" techniques. Regardless of which and how, these little creatures often leave a funky calling card that can be quite strange, interesting, pleasing to many, but also often deemed as undesirable by many."

 

It's no different than buying cultures for making sour beer. The reason Cantillion tastes like a real sour is because it is...All these quasi souring attempts in the American beer market are largely crass, pompous marketing junk...same as kettle sour.

Very few American craft brewers are making true 100 percent spontaneous wild ales...very few.

 

Doesn't matter how they are made, gross all around.

 

haha, to each their own

 

Kettle souring is nothing new, or at least the concept. It has, however, resulted in new ideas and formulations of recipes that could only be possible through this method. Dry hopped sours, for instance, can be produced with the most hop forward flavor when the brewer can achieve a specific taste profile through the balance of the PH levels and the elimination of the lactobacillus hate relationship with those precious hop oil. Not just hops, but fruit as well. The flavor complexity can also enhance the flavor and aromatic profile of certain fruits, such as grapes, passion fruit and guava. There are many more reasons for a brewer to utilize the kettle souring technique, but the most important is the cost efficiency. If one could produce a refreshing, tart beer in just the fraction of the time, it can be available more often, and at a lower cost due to the time and space that can be used to produce more. Now imagine what other sour cultures can do with a little time in a barrel, if all the unwanted bacteria is boiled off and the other microbes can shine through. Magic!

 

Nice, informative article. I think the folks in the Homebrewing forum would enjoy this info too.

 

Great article and I will agree w/ a few people that said if it tastes good enough and is priced right I don't care what method is being used. I don't see this as being any different than going to a restaurant, sure scratch made food if done well is awesome but that doesn't mean every scratch made item is better than something premade you have to take a risk which I'm willing to do with a few dollars and my stomach.