Good vienna lagers

I would fault Boston Lager for using pale malt and caramel malt instead of Vienna malt, and for the use of dry hopping, rather than its IBUs, as far as being a Vienna lager beer is concerned. My understanding is that Boston Lager uses around a pound of hops per barrel, which comes out to 387 grams per hectoliter, using European noble hops throughout. For comparison see for example:


Boston Lager is brewed to 13% plato, which is a typical Vienna lager beer strenght, and higher than a classical Pilsener lager beer strenght of 12%. The range of hopping rates for Vienna lager beers of 12.5-13.5% original gravity is given as 300-400 grams per hectoliter by Thausing towards the end of the century. Bohemian beers of 11.5-12.5% original gravity are given a range of 350-500 grams per hectoliter. One can here bring to mind this article about Pilsner Urquell which gives its hopping rate as 350 grams per hectoliter (i.e on the lower end of hopping rates for a Bohemian lager of a gravity of between 11.5-12.5% as per Thausing):

"Pilsner Urquell boils the wort for two hours and uses three additions of whole Saaz hops at a rate of 350 g/hL to bring the IBU level to 40"

When looking at a Swedish brewing journal from the year 1890 I've found that the brewery in question used on average 517 grams of hops per hectoliter pilsner, in 1895 that number has dropped to 436 grams per hectoliter, in 1898 they used on average 424 grams per hectoliter, in 1900 435 grams per hectoliter, in 1906 it's 436 grams per hectoliter (I still have alot of years left to cover to get the full picture). I think the numbers provided by Thausing, who himself was an Austrian brewer, give a good picture of the typical hopping rates in Austria Hungary by the turn of the century, and I think Pilsner Urquell of today is not the same as it was in the early 1900s, or mid 1800s as far as the hopping rate is concerned, even as it has maintained a similar gravity and alcohol level (degree of attenuation). Our points of reference have however narrowed over time, to where a majority of lager beers have to fit inside 4.7%-5.2% abv, 11-13% OG, 20-35 IBUs, which makes it very difficult to uphold and make sense of historically distinct styles. If Pilsners are supposed to be more bitter than Vienna lager beers, and pilsners are typically 30 ibus and the more extreme variants 40 ibus, then Viennas have to be capped at under 30 IBUs in order for our typology to make sense, and every other style has to be made to fit the same pattern, which in extension makes the modern American lager beers seem almost normal in comparison (due to their proximity to the supposed norm), rather than the historical outliers that they are.

 

Snake River makes a fantastic one. It's not super widely available, but does make it to Wisconsin one state over from you.

 

I never really placed that in the Vienna category. From Randy's mouth to our ears (eyes):

Cascades are used as one of the main hops, I can never taste them and think Eastern European.

 

Right!!

 

“I would fault Boston Lager for using pale malt and caramel malt instead of Vienna malt, and for the use of dry hopping, rather than its IBUs, as far as being a Vienna lager beer is concerned.”

Patrik, those are indeed good reasons for not considering Sam Adams Boston Lager as being a Vienna Lager.

In all fairness to Boston Beer Company I am not aware that they have ever termed this beer to be a Vienna Lager. In fact they have produced another beer which is specifically labeled as Vienna Lager: https://www.samueladams.com/craft-beers/vienna-lager

As regards the topic of IBUs a ‘reference point’ for this discussion is the Brewers Association style guidelines which list the stats of:

“Original Gravity (ºPlato) 1.046 - 1.056 (11.4 - 13.8) ● Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (ºPlato) 1.012 - 1.018 (3.1 - 4.6) ● Alcohol by Weight (Volume) 3.80% - 4.30% (4.80% - 5.40%) ● Bitterness (IBU) 22 - 28 ● Color SRM (EBC) 12 - 26 (24 - 52)”

So, as can be clearly discerned a Sam Adams Boston Lager with 30 IBUs exceeds the definition of a Vienna Lager (as provided by the Brewers Association Style Guidelines).

Perhaps the best way to summarize the topic of whether Sam Adams Boston Lager as being classified as a Vienna Lager is on a number of aspects:

· Too bitter per the Brewers Association Style Guidelines

· Inappropriate grain bill due to lack of Vienna Malt

· Vienna Lagers should not be dry hopped

Cheers!

 

Really wish that and Tumbler were all year round!!

 

Great Lakes Eliot Ness. Boston Lager is a little hoppy for the style, but is still a very solid beer.

 

Both SABL and Brooklyn Lager would best be described as revivals of what @jesskidden posted as the pre-pro Americanized Vienna style or Wiener beer.

 

So good. I bought more Fall packs than I had originally planned on because of this beer.

 

Firestone Walker Oaktoberfest
Uinta Yard Sale

 

Great Lakes Eliot Ness is a standard, also as mentioned above trader joes vienna lager is excellent, especially for the price.

but if you would trade for it i think Von Trapp, in vermont, makes the best in the country now.

 

I would add SN Kolsch to that list too. Heard great things about the coffee stout too. They make so many great beers.

 

Can't find it now (BBC is one of those annoying companies whose websites are different every time you visit, so it could be gone ) but they used to have a "Beer Style" chart, which including this:

 

Used to love the Schell line but haven't seen them in years either. Schmalt's alt was a fav.

 

Snake River's is amazing. We used to get it down in CO, but they pulled out 5-6 years ago. I recall freshness being a major cause.

With so few actually tasting similar to one another, you could always "cross the border" and search for amber-colored Marzen. It scratches a similar itch and (at least based on some accounts) shares a bit of history.

 

They are not labeling Sam Adams Boston Lager as a Vienna Lager today (2016). I will also choose to not classify Sam Adams Boston Lager as a Vienna Lager.

In my opinion Sam Adams Boston Lager is an American Amber Lager.

I took note that Michael (@TongoRad) posted a differing style for classifying this beer: "pre-pro Americanized Vienna style or Wiener beer." I personally do not feel comfortable with using these words for a beer style since I lack an understanding of the beer statistics associated with this verbiage.

Cheers!

Cheers!

 

I believe Abita's Amber is a vienna lager because of the malts they use and would assume that they distro in chi town

 

I thought the Straub was the pick of the litter as well- they just keep on impressing with their Sampler packs.

How would you classify Sly Fox Oktoberfest? I think you are the one who brought it to my attention that it is made with 100% Vienna Malt, and it sure does seem to straddle that borderline pretty well.

 

I personally would 'classify' Sly Fox Oktoberfest as being an Oktoberfest since for my palate there is more 'heft' to this beer which I personally associate with the Oktoberfest style. My guess is that I perceive this 'heft' due it its higher alcohol content: 5.8% ABV.

In contrast (as I have already made mention) the Stoudts Oktoberfest comes off as more of a Vienna Lager to me which I attribute to it being perceived as a 'lighter' beer for my palate (due to 4.5% ABV).

Cheers!