Post Mash Water Adjustment

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by FeDUBBELFIST, Jan 10, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Pooh-Bah (1,765) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I can't remember the source, but I read some time ago that if your water composition is suitable for your beer pre-boil, then your water composition should be suitable in your finished beer as well. As a result, I've gotten in the habit of adding all of my salts and acids to the mash, (plus acidifying the sparge water) and so I've never found the need to add anything to the kettle.

    Now I'm wondering if there would be an advantage to srategically omitting some of the salt and acid additions from the mash and move them to the boil kettle instead. Anyone out there doing so and could you explain your rationale when you do?

    Thank you.
     
  2. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    Salt, mineral and acid additions to the mash should be for mash pH optimization. If you want more flavor or mouthfeel from salts / minerals beyond the mash, then you can add salts / minerals to the sparge / kettle.

    I use tap water. All salts / minerals are added to the mash. Sometimes acid is added to the mash. No salts / minerals are added to the sparge. Acid is added to the sparge. This works well for me. Since I am happy with this process, I haven't found a need to add salts / minerals to the sparge / kettle.
     
  3. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Pooh-Bah (1,765) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Thanks for the reply.

    This is the same boat I'm in. I guess I'm wondering if there is any advantage to keeping some of the salt additions out of the mash (say beyond a certain quantity for the benefit of the mash chemistry) and using them in the boil instead.
     
  4. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    If you're referring to salts that affect mash chemistry pH, then the amount to use in the mash is the amount that serves your pH target, without adding more than you want for flavor. There's no advantage to moving some of those salts to the kettle if it causes your pH to not be where you want it.
     
  5. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Pooh-Bah (1,765) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm glad you responded VikeMan. I kind of became curious about this because of BrewCipher. There is an input for both mash and kettle additions. For my water and recipes personally, I never saw the need for pH / water flavor adjustments outside of the adjustments that I make in the mash. Is there a situation that you could think of where a salt addition would be detrimental to the mash, but beneficial to the boil/finished beer product?

    ETA: Would you agree with one of my original statements that if the water composition of mash is suitable for your beer style, then the water composition should be suitable for the finished beer product as well?
     
  6. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    It might be, for example, that you want a lot of sulfate in the finished beer, but adding enough CaSO4 to the mash water to achieve that end might make your mash pH to low.

    I'm with @VikeMan on this. Use acids (primarily) and Ca and/or Mg salts (secondarily) to get you mash pH where you want it. Then if you want more of any Ca or Mg salts add them to the kettle (or perhaps the sparge water).
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    ^^^This

    I'm not sure what you mean by this. If the composition of the mash water you have built is what you want flavor-wise, then adding water (sparge) that's not similarly treated (or added in the kettle) dilutes the flavor ions. If the composition of the mash water you have built (for pH) just so happens to match what you want for flavor, then you should add proportionally the same salts for the new water volume to maintain those relative levels. I almost never find this to be the case though. Some water chem sheets default to building both water volumes to the same ion levels. I didn't want to do that with BrewCipher, because I think it can mislead people into thinking that it's something you would commonly want to do.
     
  8. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Pooh-Bah (1,765) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    So this is what I've been doing, perhaps not the best approach:

    I build from distilled. I add CaCl and CaS04 to get where I want flavor-wise. Sometimes this gets me where I need to be pH-wise, sometimes it doesn't and I need to add acid. The amount of CaCl and CaS04 that I add are based on what I want in my final water composition, not just the mash. In other words, I do not try to match my sparge water composition to my mash water composition. I sparge with distilled water only, acidified only where necessary to match the calculated pH of the mash.
     
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I don't see anything wrong with that approach. You're building your flavor ions to a concentration that, once diluted, will be what you want overall. That's fine.
     
  10. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Pooh-Bah (1,765) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Good to hear, thank you for walking me through that VikeMan.

    Back to what @utahbeerdude mentioned earlier:

    "It might be, for example, that you want a lot of sulfate in the finished beer, but adding enough CaSO4 to the mash water to achieve that end might make your mash pH to low"

    Based on my decision to add all of my salts to the mash instead on both mash + boil - is it possible through BrewCipher to know when I'm affecting my mash pH negatively, to the point where it might affect the fermentability of my wort ?
     
  11. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    s
    Assuming you stayed within a normal mash pH range, then no, fermentability wouldn't be hurt. @utahbeerdude was talking about adding so many salts to hit the flavor you want that it also take the mash pH too acidic, i.e. outside your target range.
     
  12. FeDUBBELFIST

    FeDUBBELFIST Pooh-Bah (1,765) Oct 31, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I believe I do stay within the normal mash pH range, although I'm not 100% sure. Does Brew Cipher calculate where the pH lands separately for mad and boil?
     
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    No. I'm not aware of any models that predict post boil pH.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.