How can I improve my mash efficiency?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by chrisjws, Jan 11, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. chrisjws

    chrisjws Grand Pooh-Bah (3,302) Dec 3, 2014 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've done a bit of searching and researching and I'm not quite certain why I can't get really good efficiency. I range from 62-68% on an average brew day. I do fly sparging and this is my mash tun in the pictures below (disassembled). I constructed it myself, so maybe there is a design flaw that I'm not seeing here. I take 60-90 minutes to sparge, I use 165-170 degree water from a second cooler to rinse with. I keep the water level just above the grain bed. I collect 7-7.5 gallons and boil down to 5.5, so part of my efficiency as is comes from my burner averaging 1.5-2 gallons boil off an hour (I think that's on the higher side). My grain is milled at the store, and the guys there told me they routinely get 75+, so I'm pretty sure it's not an issue with the milling.

    Is there something I'm missing here? I'd appreciate any feedback on my process/mash tun.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (0) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    I do BIAB and I was having some major mash efficiency problems. Turned out the ph for my mash wasn't low enough and I had to start treating the water. (i've only done one batch since i figured that out but my efficiency jumped 13% and I had full conversion based on an iodine test in an hour instead of the usual 3). Brew cipher saved me on it. I was about ready to quit brewing.
     
    SaCkErZ9 and chrisjws like this.
  3. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Two things;
    1) Mash efficiency is not brewhouse efficiency
    2) More better would be a picture of your crush
    3) Wear shoes
     
    jmdrpi, ssam, chavinparty and 9 others like this.
  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,647) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Check your thermometer calibration. Crush is very important. Then the pH should be in the 5.2-5-6 range, water adjustments may be required.

    High efficiency does not always equal good tasting beer.
     
    mugs1789, chrisjws and GetMeAnIPA like this.
  5. chrisjws

    chrisjws Grand Pooh-Bah (3,302) Dec 3, 2014 California
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've started looking at possibly treating water more that I have in the past. Right now I use reverse osmosis water from a local water store and my treatment is adding a bit of 5.2 PH stablizer that is necessary (per directions) for the given amount of strike water. I haven't done an iodine test, but maybe should I start doing that to verify that I'm getting full conversion?
     
  6. ghostinthemachine

    ghostinthemachine Initiate (0) Aug 14, 2015 Louisiana

    I tried an iodine test and found I wasn't getting conversion. It was what made me start investigating the water because i knew my temps were right. Iodine is cheap from walgreens. It's a pretty simple thing to do
     
    chrisjws likes this.
  7. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Worthless.
     
    chrisjws, ChrisMyhre and LuskusDelph like this.
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    ^ Yep.
     
    chrisjws and ChrisMyhre like this.
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    RO water without appropriate acid and/or salt additions won't get your pH into the proper range for most styles.
     
    chrisjws and wspscott like this.
  10. mcjaxon

    mcjaxon Initiate (0) Dec 24, 2015 Colorado

    how do you calculate the % efficiency? (OG-FG/OG)X100?
     
    chrisjws likes this.
  11. MarkGP

    MarkGP Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2015 Rhode Island

    I have the same mashtun. I'm betting on a combination of water chemistry and grain crush.
     
    chrisjws and ChrisMyhre like this.
  12. BeerMaverick

    BeerMaverick Zealot (718) Dec 14, 2010 Connecticut

  13. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,958) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah

    With RO water you need to add minerals since almost everything is stripped out of the water.

    Ditch the 5.2 Stabilizer, you definitely don't need it with RO water. And it doesn't work for "normal" water.

    Here is a place to start reading https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge
    and another http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3...h-ph/using-salts-for-brewing-water-adjustment

    You are going to want a water calculator, there is a link on the brunwater page or you can use Brew Cipher from @VikeMan which does everything you need in a recipe calculator.
     
    chrisjws and ChrisMyhre like this.
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    chrisjws likes this.
  15. DunkelFester

    DunkelFester Zealot (607) Aug 24, 2004 Pennsylvania

    No - ^ that is % attenuation (apparent).

    % efficiency is a measure of how much of the theoretical maximum yield one extracts from a given grain bill.

    Mash efficiency relates to pre-boil gravity (i.e. what percentage of the *available* sugar did you extract), while brewhouse efficiency is more a measure of the volume and post-boil gravity of the wort that actually makes it into your fermentor.
     
    chrisjws and JackHorzempa like this.
  16. DunkelFester

    DunkelFester Zealot (607) Aug 24, 2004 Pennsylvania

    My money is on the crush.

    Homebrew stores often keep the gap set on the 'wide' side so people (newer all-grain brewers in particular) don't come back complaining about problems with slow runoff or stuck sparges (wider gap = more intact grain husk = faster runoff, at the expense of reduced conversion/extraction). Besides, low efficiency means (worst case) their customers are buying more grain! It's win-win for them.

    If you start crushing your own, you can experiment to find a more optimal setting for your system. My efficiency was similar to yours before I bought my own mill. Now it's pretty consistently 81%. If I miss that mark? It's a good indication that I need to check & reset the gap on the mill!
     
    chrisjws and ghostinthemachine like this.
  17. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    Never assume a homebrew store provides a crush that produces 75-80% mash efficiency. Even if they said so. They LIE !!

    Mash efficiency checklist:

    1. perfect grain crush (you crushed it with your own decent quality mill)
    2. mash pH is verified to be 5.2-5.6
    3. mash temperature is a steady 148-158F for 60-90 minutes
    4. stir the mash for 2 minutes
    5. stir the sparge for 2 minutes
    6. sparge water is 170-180F

    Also keep in mind, efficiency is reduced with higher gravity beers. You aren't going to get 80% efficiency with an 10% beer.
     
    HopsintheSack, chrisjws and inchrisin like this.
  18. pittvkyle7

    pittvkyle7 Initiate (0) Apr 16, 2007 Connecticut

    Do your dark beers have a better mash efficiency than your light beers? If so, your mash PH might be too high. However, if your mash efficiency is close on both light and dark batches then you should first look into the way the grains are crushed.
     
  19. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,295) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    Is the temperature of your (fly? / batch?) sparge water addition or the grain bed?
     
  20. Brew_Betty

    Brew_Betty Initiate (0) Jan 5, 2015 Wisconsin

    Sparge water temperature before dumping on grain.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.