Had peated stout disaster, trying again

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by redgorillabreath, Jan 26, 2016.

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  1. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    It started with what I now know to be a bad recipe, capped off with a broken fermenter and 4 gallons of beer on the floor. But my brew team is bound and determined to try again. Here's the recipe (4.5 gal into fermenter):

    Crystal 80L 0.5 lb
    Roasted barley 0.75 lb
    Chocolate malt 0.25 lb
    Flaked barley. 1.0 lb
    Maris Otter. 10.0 lb
    Prayer barley. 0.25 lb

    90 min boil

    Hops:
    Magnum 0.5 oz 60 min
    Columbus 0.5 oz. 60 min

    Monster starter, 109 ml of yeast slurry from Wyeast 1728

    Also the recipe called for 1 oz of Irish moss. Having never used it before, I followed the recipe. I ended up with a 2" layer of goo that insulated the yeast cake from the batch, and fermentation never finished.

    Anyway, going into fermentation the wort was downright harsh. There was at least two times more hops than there should have been. And there was a separate, strong (too strong) bitterness from the grains. To much peat, too.

    After 4 weeks in "primary", the taste had mellowed considerably, but still not right.

    Assuming that the above grain bill is the starting point, is it possible to make adjustments to give a dry but pleasantly flavorful result?

    I think that it's a given that the hops has to go to 0.5 oz max, and the peated barley would go from 4oz to 1oz.

    Any comments would be much appreciated!


    Cheers!
     
    #1 redgorillabreath, Jan 26, 2016
  2. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    I presume you mean peat smoked malt? A little of that goes a long long way. I brewed what was supposed to be a smoked dark IPA (yeah, I know...) a few years ago and used I think a pound of peat smoked. WAAAAYYYYY too overboard. Only in the past 56 months or so has it gotten decent, as the peaty-ness has faded out. I now call it a smoked porter.
    I suppose it would depend on how much smoked flavor you want in the final beer. I don't know if just 1 oz will be enough. I would not consider fresh wort or even a month old to be a good determination of the final product.
    I would try that recipe as it sits, and see how it goes for a final, conditioned product.
    Also, are you really stuck on the peated malt? Maybe a different smoked malt will give a mellower flavor for the same amount used.
     
    #2 JrGtr, Jan 26, 2016
  3. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    I regularly brew with peat smoked malt, around 4 - 6 ounces per 5 gal batch. That's on the strong side (which I prefer), but always at the mercy of the freshness of the malt. The intensity does fade with time so I don't mind flirting with the high side of peat-i-ness. I believe Stone Smoked Porter publishes 4 oz of peat malt for a 5 gallon batch.

    Regarding hops, I would shoot for IBUs in the mid to high 40s. I always use Whirloc and haven't encountered the "goo" you refer to. Rapid cooling from the boil helps the cold break form and ideally left behind in the brew kettle.
    This hasn't been my experience, my wort has always been typically sweet. I don't start noticing any smokiness until after fermentation/conditioning. I believe your roasted barley should help in drying out your beer. You might want to initially skip the peat and try to perfect the basic recipe.

    Tell us a little more about the prayer barley.
     
    #3 PortLargo, Jan 26, 2016
  4. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    #4 pweis909, Jan 26, 2016
    Lukass and PapaGoose03 like this.
  5. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    My brew buddies have a problem with this eminently logical approach. They have a short time horizon...my son's friend is only local during the winter term at college, so I suppose there isn't time for too many iterations. I'm the geezer, relatively speaking.

    Anyway, I don't think the harsh bitterness was coming from the peated malt, at least all of the bitterness. Maybe the roasted barley was contributing to the bitterness? Maybe tannins in the roasted barley (just a wild guess)? 8% of the grain bill was roasted barley and peated malt.
     
    #5 redgorillabreath, Jan 27, 2016
  6. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    It was amazing. There was a layer ~2" thick of what looked like cottage cheese curds laying on top of the yeast cake. I didn't see this until I racked it over to another fermenter, to which I added 2 pounds of sugar boiled in water along with champagne yeast.

    Most recipes I've noticed since then call for 1/4 teaspoon. The brew was so dark and opaque, it doesn't seem like there would be much benefit at throwing a bunch of additives to clarify it...maybe just enough to pull out any left-over break.
     
    #6 redgorillabreath, Jan 27, 2016
  7. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    It was definitely a mistake in the recipe. Following a recipe blindly runs its risks. Live and learn!

    There was a Can You Brew It podcast where an attempt to make Shakespeare Stout was foiled by too much whirlfloc (processed Irish moss). They describe a similar gelatinous slime and the taste of seaweed was noted. Could you taste seaweed? Or does the peat cover that up? I frankly think I would have a difficult time keeping down a seaweed and peat flavored stout.
     
    #7 pweis909, Jan 27, 2016
  8. redgorillabreath

    redgorillabreath Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2015 Pennsylvania

    Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer made a cologne that smelled like the ocean.

    There wasn't any seaweed/mossy taste. I guess the peat could have been covering it up if it was subtle.

    This was the first recipe I've run into where there was just too much of so many things. C'est la vie.

    I think I'll back off the roasted barley, hops, and peated malt. Then I'm going to brew another SMASH to get something reliable back into the pipeline.

    Cheers!
     
    #8 redgorillabreath, Jan 28, 2016
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