Casual Question About Basic Shake Aeration

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Benigail, Jan 21, 2016.

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  1. Benigail

    Benigail Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2016 Massachusetts

    Hello All! Thanks for existing, otherwise homebrew would be remarkably difficult.

    I've got to have a first post some time, so, even though this has certainly been asked before, I hope everyone will forgive me.

    Anyway, I essentially want to know how effective the specific method of aeration I use is 1)Safe, 2) Effective, and 3) Usable for higher gravity brews.

    So! Step by step, this is how I aerate.

    1) Before I even start making wort, I boil about 3 gallons of water for sterility and de-chlorination. I put cool it all in an ice bath in the sink, and then (at about 90*) I add 2 gallons in my sealed and sanitized fermentor bucket in an water bath; sometimes it'll sit there sealed all night. Point is, I get it to room temperature. I set the other gallon aside in a sealed jug for other uses, very often to top off the fermentor bucket.

    2) When I pour the warm 2 gallons into my fermentor, I pour it from high up into the bucket and splash it around a bunch. Then I pick up the bucket, slosh it around a bit, then pour it back into the pot, and then pour it all back into the bucket. Lots of splashing. Sealed, next step.

    3) When I'm done with my wort, and I cool it in an ice bath, I get it to about 80* before I lose patience. This is fine though! Because now I take that warm wort and, like in step two, I pour it all into that big fermentor bucket full of 65* water. Temp is now about 75*. Like in step two, I pour out some of it into my pot, then slosh that bucket around a bunch. Take the pot, pour it from high up, make some big splashes. I do this about three times. Then I fill to the 5-gallon line with the extra water, splashing a bunch.

    ---

    As I write this, I feel like I'm fretting over something that I probably don't need to; however, all the literature I read about talks about the importance of aeration to the point that there are special devices to do it, so I don't want to do it wrong.

    So far, I think it's worked for my beers. My last BB Dunkelweiss had a FG of 1.018; my current big beer, a BB Imperial Pale Ale, has just finished primary at 1.02. Everything else was done perfectly (I was very impressed with myself!), and they taste great, if a bit malty (though for the Dunkel, that might be the point - there was a lot of Maltodextrine in it).

    I'm about to work on a RIS, with an OG of 1.108. Granted, it's only a 1-gallon batch, but I'd like to know for the future too - is this method enough to supply the yeast oxygen for a high gravity beer, or should I really go out and get that aeration stone?

    Thanks!
     
  2. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    I would strongly recommend using pure O2, injected via a sintered stainless steel stone. The maximum O2 level you would get via shaking/pouring/swirling or anything involving atmospheric O2 (around 8 ppm) isn't ideal for a beer that big. It will make beer, but the yeast will not be able to propagate enough due to limited sterol production. So you're left with a smaller number of cells to do the job. Low cell counts are not great for big beers.
     
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  3. StupidlyBrave

    StupidlyBrave Zealot (507) Jan 2, 2009 Pennsylvania

    My last really big stout refused to budge below 1.03 (Beersmith projected that FG should have been 1.017), even after a month in secondary. So I kegged it, and purchased the items recommended above. It is still pretty good. But it isn't as good as it could have been.

    I had washed the yeast used once I moved it to secondary, and the IPA I made with it hit FG pretty quickly and easily. So I don't think pitching was the issue. I blame my aeration practices for this.

    I'd like to start brewing Belgian Ales, and I am convinced that this aeration step - along with careful temperature management during fermentation will give me the best chance of success.
     
    #3 StupidlyBrave, Jan 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
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  4. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    . . . what Vikeman said. Here are the limitations of shaking:
    https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_oxygenation.cfm

    Oxygen bottles are pretty easy to find at flea markets/garage sales and from geriatric golfers with an early tee-time in Florida.
     
  5. Benigail

    Benigail Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2016 Massachusetts

    Ah, I love data from the Yeast Manufacturers. And thank god for it too, because I read on another forum that using an aquarium filter is totally good enough to get 10+ppm. Anecdotal evidence is once thing, but but hard data is another. Thanks!

    Side question - how did they brew high gravity beers before the invention of O2 tanks?

    Edit - I suppose adding more yeast, since the point of oxygenation is to help yeast grow and multiply. I suppose adding more yeast after a stalled fermentation isn't a terrible idea...
     
    #5 Benigail, Jan 22, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2016
  6. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    I used to only worry about the legality of refilling the tanks. Now, you make me worry about the legality of how you obtain the tanks.

    What's the old adage? Possession is 9/10 of the law. Or was it I'm not afraid to go back to prison.
     
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  7. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,250) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I see your avatar is a packet of dry yeast. It has been said that the oxygen requirements of dry yeast are not as great as those for liquid yeast.

    Do I understand correctly that you are boiling 2 gallons of wort separately from the 3 gallons of water, combining the two to make a 5 gallon batch?

    The act of heating cause you to lose dissolved gases. You might do better if you sloshed that 3 gallons around some to introduce oxygen into it, than add your wort as you do, and then slosh it around some more. If using dry yeast, this might be sufficient. If using liquid yeast, the pure oxygen route probably is a better way to go, but maybe not absolutely necessary. Ultimate, I think you need to let performance guide your process. Is your beer beginning to ferment within 36 hours? Is your beer getting down to the anticipated final gravity? If not, you might do well with more oxygen
     
  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Peter (@pweis909) brought up a good point concerning the fact that dry yeast has differing oxygen requirements than liquid yeast.

    @Benigail, what type of yeast will you be using to make your RIS?

    Cheers!
     
  9. Benigail

    Benigail Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2016 Massachusetts

    Great questions, Jack and Peter. Glad you asked. So, aha, I *am* using Safale US-05 yeast, but it is no longer dry. I just racked a big Imperial Pale Ale to secondary - I glossed over it in my intro post, but I should mention that the US-05 worked hard and completed primary with a SG of 1.02 (OG 1.074, 7% ABV), which was in my target range. So I harvested the yeast from the cake, about 30 ounces of off-white yeasty sludge split between three 12-ounce bottles, and it's now chilling in my fridge.

    I was saving it to pitch to my 1-gallon RIS and eventually to a 5-gallon pale ale (which I'm not concerned about, really). I intended to pitch the RIS directly onto the cake, but alas, timing didn't line up.

    So now I'm thinking, from everyone's input... I could probably overcome the oxygen requirements, by pitching, what, half? of my saved yeast to the RIS and following Peter's instructions for aeration. What do you think?

    You know, I bet there's a calculator for this.

    Edit: Found it. Though it doesn't speak much for aeration.
     
  10. Benigail

    Benigail Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2016 Massachusetts

    So, the answer to my question was as suspected - pitch a lot of yeast. And boy, did I. I suspect some of you may have seen this coming and figured you'd let me learn from it :wink:

    So after a day of really righteous activity, almost immediately, I went to sleep. I woke up at about 4am with a bad feeling and, sure enough - the fermentation airlock had clogged up and shot into the ceiling. Fortunately, I only lost about a quart of wort, into the bag I had around it, but I'm still waiting on the wife to ask about the brown marks on the ceiling...

    Three days of heavy fermentation, it is now resting. Beer went from 1.108 to 1.03 in three days. I tasted it - it tastes like a stout! A stout with like rubbing alcohol thrown in. For real, it burns. It's now sitting in storage for a week before I move it to secondary - there's so much yeast in there I don't want to risk picking up off flavors.

    Then it's gonna sit for about 4 weeks to mellow out before bottling. Nice.
     
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    What was the fermentation temperature of the beer?

    Cheers!
     
  12. Benigail

    Benigail Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2016 Massachusetts

    Thanks for your help, and everyone's help, by the way.

    That's where I'm most worried. I know they can get hot, but I didn't want to risk infection by sticking a thermometer in there. So instead I put the carboy into a cool water bath when fermentation started up, back in the bag when I went to sleep, and then a water bath during cleanup from the explosion.

    So in all likelihood I probably had a high temp during fermentation, which certainly would contribute to fusel flavors.

    This is why I only made one gallon, after all - now I know some things to expect :stuck_out_tongue:

    I would leave it in primary for longer but it's a ton of yeast, man. I'll siphon off some of the cake into secondary, but having a soapy batch years ago, I'm terrified of autolysis. There is truly a lot of yeast in there.
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I am guessing that perceptible levels of fusel oils (higher alcohols) were produced during the very active/hot fermentation. The potential good news is that fusel oils can sometimes be 'processed' during conditioning (e.g., extended bottle conditioning). I would recommend that you let this beer age for several months in the bottle before drinking this beer.

    Cheers!
     
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  14. CADETS3

    CADETS3 Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2014 Texas

    I have a tool, such as a degasser, that I've used to aerate every batch to date. I hook it up to my dewalt drill and create a huge vortex in the fermenter. I do that at the highest speed for about 5 minutes and normally, there is a huge amount of foam produced from this. How good do you guys think that method is? I've never had a batch not finish within a point or two from FG. Approximately 80% of my beers are over 1.080 OG.
     
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It sure sounds like you are having healthy fermentations to me. I would be willing to bet that your method 'works'.

    Cheers!
     
  16. Benigail

    Benigail Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2016 Massachusetts

    Hey, that's a cool tool. Do you have a link to where I could find one for my own? Or would that be a hardware store purchase?
     
  17. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,635) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

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  18. monkeybeerbelly

    monkeybeerbelly Initiate (0) Dec 6, 2012 New York

    ya i was wondering the same thing.
    i was looking to get one of these for that purpose
     
  19. CADETS3

    CADETS3 Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2014 Texas

    That's exactly what I have. *******DO NOT SUDDENLY STOP THE ROATION OF THE WHIRPOOL BY ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF THE WHIRPOOL WITH THIS!!! IT WILL CAUSE A FLAP, IF NOT BOTH, TO BREAK!!!!!******* I did that to mine on my first use but have used it with on flapper for 35+ brews.
     
  20. CADETS3

    CADETS3 Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2014 Texas

    I would prefer this for the sake of longevity, however, you're going to eventually scratch the hell out of your fermenter with that. The plastic is much less abrasive, obviously. The nice pro to the plastic mixer, is that you can insert it into a glass carboy or almost all containers with a small mouth and then the flaps will flare out perpendicular to the shaft once you start spinning it. I just wanted to let you know the drawbacks to that.
     
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