Kegging Beers with Conan Yeast

I have done a DIPA, IPA and pale ale all with Omega's DIPA strain and they have all come out cloudy. I've also done a few batches using TYB Funktown which supposedly has Conan blended in and they have all come out cloudy as well. All batches were kegged. FWIW the harvested yeast clears up in the mason jars.

 

Since you used the word "beats," I would be interested to hear if there is even one person who can say that their bottle conditioned beers do better in competitions than their kegged (bottled from keg) beers. My experience was an increase in competition scores when I switched to kegging.

What is it that you prefer about your own bottle conditioned beers over your own kegged beers?

 

I agree with much of what you're saying, especially the finer bubbles and their impact on foam retention. However, I also find that force carbonated beer gets those same fine bubbles, if you're willing to wait. Others have said that it's due to hydration of the CO2. I don't know if that's really why, but it sounds like a good hypothesis to me. It's one reason that I'm perfectly happy to do "set and forget" force carbonating rather than using fast force methods.

 

I posted the below in a previous thread:

Below is something that Martin Brungard posted on another beer forum:

“We know we can infuse CO2 into solution fairly quickly. The soda manufacturers do that every day. Nice coarse and effervescent bubbles are formed. But with time, CO2 is hydrated and I feel that this mechanism is key to the change in carbonation quality that we brewers desire. The hydration of CO2 is a very time-dependent process and it cannot be accelerated. That is why you can force carbonate a keg in minutes, yet not have acceptable foam for a few weeks.”

Cheers!

 

The foam proteins are said to be "once and done". When you shake the kegs, you will make foam, and use a little of those each time.

As for all the reasons that you listed above, have you ever done a blind triangle test on a force carbonated vs naturally carbonated beer?

I force carbonate my beers, no problem getting the tiny bubbles if you wait.

 

Regarding force carbonation vs "natural" carbonation.

CO2 is CO2 is CO2. The gas in solution is exactly the same. It's a gas bubble. In a liquid solution. And the yeast make the exact same gas as the stuff that comes out of the bottle. I have never read or heard any explanation why natural carbonation is better. It is very doubtful that it has anything to do with the gas itself.

Now, slower? Yes. Does that change the quality of the bubble? Perhaps. But if you let force carbonated beer sit quietly for a while there is no reason the source of the bubble matters.

What is interesting is what happens in bottle conditioned beers after the yeast go dormant. Randy Thiel was doing some work on this while he was at Ommegang. I'm not sure what happened to his study when he left for New Glarus.
Cheers.

 

Thanks for that. Very interesting. Wonder if Denny and Drew or Marshall would do a beersperimentand get those results.

 

Thanks for the interesting reply and interesting thread.

Great name for an AL blog. I was just backing with a friend from Birmingham and referenced that quote.

 

I have to agree with the Gasman from New York on this one. Any carbon dioxide absorbed in a liquid will behave the same regardless if it is a product of cellular respiration (spunding valve or priming sugar) or forced carbed once it has reached equilibrium. It will look like O=C=O. When equilibrium is upset (i.e. opening a bottle), the CO2 will attempt to reestablish equilibrium in a manner independent of how it was originally injected in the solution. The only variables are pressure differential, area of diffusion, and temperature. If any brewers can prove any of the above is incorrect they should alert The Academy of Sciences.

That said, how CO2 is released in a beer is likely effected by suspended proteins and yeast. This can (and probably does) influence head, aroma profile, and mouthfeel. Bottle carbing likely introduces chemical changes as well.

I spend a fair amount of time watching bubbles rise up in my beer glass. Speed of dispersing depends on carb level of course, but I can not say the bubbles differ in size. So I'm not aware of big versus small bubbles . . . but in fairness there is alcohol involved in my observation technique.

I find the discussion enlightening. To share my Conan experience: I've harvested Conan dregs twice from Heady Topper. I've found the attenuation to be too high. My first generation had magnificent peach/apricot esters but attenuated at 90%. Second and third generations crept up in AA to 93% with successive reduction in esters. All the yeast was started and saved (not washed from the primary) so technically it had only been fermented once (original HT). After the third cycle I harvested new dregs and had an identical process . . . maxed out again on the third generation with an AA of 93%. It's possible I was infected from the get-go. But I harvest lots of yeast and am pretty successful . . . difficult to know for sure. But two independent harvests produced identical results.

To be sure of my attenuation and ester profiles I graciously volunteer to harvest/brew/post if anyone will send me a can of Heady Topper (a four-pack would provide additional data points).