Beer freshness depending on style

Michael, I drink a lot (and I do mean a lot) of commercial beer. Those bottles are not bottle conditioned. And yet I have never noticed ribes aroma in those beers.

I have noticed the other oxidative process flavors of honey-like and cardboard (2-Nonenal) though.

Cheers!

 

I don't have the time to look into how it's formed and what the precursors may be, so it can either be a prolonged oxidative reaction or even a parallel type as far as I know right now. It would be interesting to find out, though.

 

I think a big factor(and one that I use) is if the abv is, say, 9% or higher, it will usually "last" lomger without the quality suffering, and sometimes get even better with

 

The graph with the added X & Y values appears in The Brewers Association publication (and pdf) Best Practices Guide to Quality Craft Beer and, as noted on the graph, it was "Adapted from Dalgliesh ca. 1977". The B.A. further notes:

The B.A. booklet is credited to Gary Spedding of the Brewing and Distilling Analytical Services, LLC (BDAS, LLC) in Lexington, Kentucky. Unfortunately, his blog Alcohol Beverage Testing News seems to be defunct.

The graph was created C. E. Dalgliesh, former Director of Research at the Brewing Research Foundation (UK). A year after creating the graph, Dalgliesh, along with M. C. Meilgaard published BEER FLAVOUR TERMINOLOGY in the
Journal of the Institute of Brewing, "published for the Joint Working Croups of the European Brewery Convention, the Master Brewers Association of the Americas and the American Society of Brewing Chemists".

In that paper they wrote:

 

JK, have you experienced "catty" flavors as a result of beer aging?

Cheers!

 

According to the linked paper:

Sounds familiar to me.

 

From the link:

“Catty

(p-menthane-8-thiol-3-one)

Catty is a tom cat urine, ribes or blackcurrent like off flavour that can occur in beer. Seen generally as an off flavour (but as a positive flavour in some ales), Catty can indicate early oxidation of beer during storage. This flavour is highly flavour active and can easily be detected once trained.”

I have read from numerous sources that some people perceive the compound 4MMP as smelling/tasting like cat piss. I have brewed beers that feature Citra hops (which are high in 4MMP) and they in an unsolicited manner made mention that the beer had an aroma/flavor of cat piss (they were cat owners). That beer had an aroma/flavor of tropical fruits to my palate.

I have consumed a fair number of non-fresh beers in my many decades of drinking commercial beer but I have personally have never experienced the aroma/flavor of cat piss/blackcurrent/tomato plants,… in any of those aged beers.

Maybe my palate is ‘blind’ to p-menthane-8-thiol-3-one? Or maybe this off-favor does not really express itself in the manner that the graph/curve of Dalgliesh indicates? The Dalgliesh curve would indicate that p-menthane-8-thiol-3-one would reach a peak of intensity in a relatively quick timeframe (e.g., before the oxidative process produced flavors of honey-like and cardboard). I have perceived on multiple occasions the flavors of honey-like and cardboard (papery) in old commercial beers.

In this thread I have enquired whether other beer drinkers have experienced the flavors of ribes (catty – tomato leaves, blackcurrent leaves) in aged beers but I have not heard any feedback in this regard.

Cheers!

 

I was in Mexico City. I think the dates on that sticker would be strange to a shopper who wasn't savvy.

 

I found a Oskar Blue's variety pack from August with Dale's Pale/Old Chub/Pinner/Yella. Not worried about the Old Chub but should I risk the freshness on the other three?

 

At it's base beer is a living thing, fresher is better. Some styles age beautifully some do not. But I can't think any Brewer that brews a beer to sit for 5 years before being consumed. As always give me a bottle date and I'll figure it out.

 

Do you know if Ribes aroma/flavour is related to autolysis and/or soy sauce/umami character?

 

Nope.

Cheers!

 

It's more complicated than that.

Bitterness doesn't decline in a linear fashion. It drops quickly in the first couple of months, then more slowly after that. And I've had beers that had no sign of oxidation years, or even decades, after bottling.

 

It's not as simple as sweet flavours becoming stronger with age. The perceived sweetness levels tend to rise and fall over long ageing, as sugars are slowly broken down. Some sugars are sweeter than others. At least that's what Johmn Keeling said and he knows more about beer ageing than anyone I know.

 

Not sure if I'm reading you right about the 5 year bit, but some brewers put a 10 year best by date on certain beers.

 

I've had very aged Bcbs like 2007 vintage and it was badly oxidized , I had some 2008 that was fading fast as well. Cold and dark will extend life but 5 years seems sensible for the style. I'm not a sour guy all bets are off there. Probably no real absolutes some guys like aging big dipas, I don't some do. My response was primarily with most hoppy beers and stouts realizing that some styles will last forever. I'm about half right I'd guess.

 

Styles that I've enjoyed aged and will buy, pretty much, no matter the age:
- BA stouts
- Most "sours" - not a big fan of that term, but in this case it works
- Saisons and Biers de Garde
- Barleywines
- Old ales
- Most other barrel aged beers
- Quads and even Tripels to some extent

Aside from IPAs, I've noticed that coffee stouts really don't age well. I had a bunch saved for a tasting, but they turned into soy sauce. Those I NEED either a born on/enjoy by date, an Instagram/Facebook update from the bottle shop proving its freshness, knowledge of the release date, or me seeing it roll off the truck.

 

My general guidelines:

DIPA, IPA, Kettle Sours & Wheat Based Beers - within 3 months
Basic Stouts, Browns, Blondes, Saisons, English Ales, Lagers & Pilsners - 4 to 6 months
High ABV versions of the above beers, oak aged IPA's, most Belgian Beers and other bottle conditioned beers - 1 to 2 years
Imperial Stouts, Barleywines, Quads, Bretts and Wild Sours - 1 to 10 years or longer

Some age better than others, for example Citra heavy IPA's last up to a year (they change, but not always for the worse) whereas some Belgian styles work better fresher (Blondes, Tripels, Belgian IPA's). Experimentation is the only true way to find out.