Lost Abbey | Veritas 017

I've almost missed out on picking up a release because "life happened" and I had to go on a business trip for the weekend. There were no proxies allowed for the event either. So I calmly emailed them letting them know about my situation and if it would be possible to either hold the bottles back an extra week or give them to me a day ahead of time.

With virtually no questions asked they held the bottles for an extra week for me in the tasting room. You'd be surprised how far communicating goes.

 

Yes just one more reason I will be avoiding this year. Granted you can get your bottles all day and not in the particular slot, one day is a bit much considering the cost. Sorry I know this sentiment comes off redundant.

 

Kelsey is very kind and understanding and will work with you in the event of "life happening". She helped me out this past weekend and let me grab my sunday bottles on saturday. Of course they had both lists out anyways and not like I was asking for an additional week but if I did I bet she would have been glad to help.

So agree fully, communication and honestly being kind still goes quite far.

 

One could argue it goes even further these days. Everyone is so quick to blast on social media.

 

I mean I get that its just one beer and you gotta follow their rules to get it but I'm not even sure its legal to not give a refund if the customer isn't able to pick up the item. O well, with the amount of good beer most people in SoCal can pick up at the corner store, don't see the point of jumping through hoops for this one. It just jumped out at me because I saw how ridiculous the sales terms were, I've never seen anything like it.

 

not to go legal eagle on you, but contracts are typically binding if both parties are aware of the terms and you aren't contracting around something illegal. No one is forcing you to purchase the bottles.

 

You must not be buying beer online recently. Pretty much every brewery is doing this now.

 

Lost abbey sent me an email on Saturday saying my bottles were available for pickup after I got them on saturday.

Saw you there but didn't say hi cause you were having fun with your friends. Told my buddy he should challenge you but he decided to challenge a guy with his league hoodie on and lost.

 

Bah, should have just cut in and dropped that coin down. I left mine in the car so I was a free drink. I am glad someone else challenged the guy in the hoodie, I was planning on returning after I dropped off the bottles, glad I didn't. =P

 

As a counter example in a similar situation, I couldn't make it to the V016 release due to a minor family emergency. I emailed them, asking pretty much the same thing, either to let me pick up the bottles later that week, or to get a refund. I was polite and didn't demand anything, since I had agreed to the terms of purchase, after all, but was hoping for a courtesy. I initially was told that one or the other option was likely possible, but they didn't respond to any further inquiries. Even if the answer was going to be "No," I would have appreciated the response. So your mileage may vary with their customer service. I'm skipping their releases, for the time being.

 

Well, in order to have an exchange contract, you have to have adequate consideration on both sides. I offer them money and they offer beer, making the contract binding. If you miss the date of the pickup, there's basically no consideration on their behalf, you gave them money and they gave you nothing, I'm not sure the contract can be still considered binding. I'm sure you can do a chargeback on your credit card if you never got the beer.

 

Which is part of the reason that breweries like Alpine no longer do online sales. If you want to buy you need to be willing to play the game. Talking legality and making a big deal about the rules isn't going to extend the pick up window, it's going to kill online sales.

 

Hehehe. Damn. Will do next time. He went. 500 on the day cause the bartender at modern times challenged him.

 

I think his sours are world class.

 

I've always found the contractual aspect to be pretty fascinating. I'm not a lawyer, but I've spoken to a coupe of attorney friends about this to get their perspective. Their opinions both matched pretty closely. In California, unless it's an event or a perishable item, a business either has to provide you with the good or service you paid for or issue a refund. And even though the "no refunds" may be in the contract, that doesn't limit your consumer rights. The perishable item is what makes this unique. A brewery could argue that their beer is perishable and no longer suitable for consumption. For that to happen though, they'd have to ensure that they didn't have any more on tap or didn't offer any more bottles of the same batch in the tasting room or at some later date. This might actually be valid for a place like Kern River and their Citra DIPA release. I'm not trying to stir shit up or start a debate, but I just find this stuff interesting. And for the record, I've always picked up my beers on time.

 

"Perishable item" is not the only thing here... Brewers always (almost always?) sell these as "events"-- in other words, you are buying a ticket or multiple tickets for a "beer release" event, and every ticket comes with a bottle attached. The "event" runs the duration of the pickup window.

I'm not saying this loophole would hold up in the Supreme Court, but it seems to be the way that the brewing industry has angled to uphold the terms of their sale, and not to provide refunds for those who do not pick up their bottles on time. Personally, I've been around long enough and I live far away enough (and I buy ridiculous amounts of beer enough) that I have been unable to pick up bottles on more than one occasion, and I have been able to "massage" my way through the situation with kindness and humility (and gotten my bottles at an earlier/later time), and I have also been on the receiving end of radio silence and/or a firm upholding of the terms of the sale (and not gotten my bottles, nor a refund), *and* I have also been granted a refund even though the terms of the sale explicitly stated that I would not be given one.

I basically just came to accept this all as a part of the process that goes along with buying coveted beers in the modern era, and I have no hard feelings if brewers stick firmly to the letter of their sale. It's just beer. And we all should be careful to read and understand the terms of sale of anything we buy online. Most of all, and I know this has been said before, but... I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that if enough people clamor over their displeasure with the terms of the sales, or insist upon refunds and report them as charge backs to their credit card companies, or rise up and file a class action lawsuit, or whatever... You may get some softening and changing of the terms of sale, sure, but you will also very likely get a lot of brewers cancelling the process of online sales to begin with. Be careful what you wish for.

 

Must keep online sales a thing. It doesn't look good to be standing in line all groggy from just waking up in jammy pants and scratching your balls. At home, no one can see that, but in a beer line it may be seen as unacceptable.

 

It does seem inevitable that the questionable legal area these sales live in, combined with the entitlement and butt hurt of some individuals will eventually lead to a Big Stink happening someday that causes another shake-up in how these "events" are handled. Can't say I'm looking forward to it, either, particularly since it seems that despite strictly written rules my sense is most brewers are still handling individual cases in a respectful and friendly way.

 

Never underestimate the ability of the few to ruin it for the many.

 

Before reading even one post in this thread Im going to guess its a lot of people complaining about price. To those people I honestly recommend not posting in these threads as it only creates more hubbub.