Hoppy Blondes are Session IPAs

No they aren't. Hoppy Blonde I think is something like 35 IBUs. Hoppy is not the same thing as bitter. I believe IPAs are 50-70 IBUs in general? Pale ales are 35-55 IBU. Hoppy Blonde is hoppy because it's extensively dry-hopped.

It's a great beer IMO. It's also lighter in color than is allowable for IPA or even a Pale ale. It's essentially a light blonde ale that has been dry-hopped with Mosaic.

I enjoy saisons, I recently had one that was dry-hopped with Nelson. It's not an IPA either.

 

This is one of the worst forums I've seen on BA.

One of the 4 main ingredients in beer is hops. I guess that makes every beer an IPA.

 

One of the biggest selling beers in the UK is Greene King IPA. It's 3,6% ABV and a not exactly sky high IBU. Is it an IPA ? Certainly it is , but a mid 20th Century IPA during which time this was what IPAs had evolved to.
Is a Ford Model T a motor car ? Yes, though it's nothing like a current one. You can't say that because of what modern cars are like , cars of the past aren't really cars at all.

 

A week ago I had the pleasure of drinking a pint of Hill Farmstead Works of Love which is a hoppy Blonde Ale of session strength (3.7% ABV). I really, really like that beer. Below is something I posted in another thread:

“Last evening I had the pleasure to drink a Hill Farmstead collaboratively brewed Session Ale called Works of Love. Below is a description of this beer from the Hill Farmstead website. I personally did not specifically pick up the aspects of Earl Gray Tea. To my palate this beer was a very tasty hoppy Blonde Ale. Tons of flavor in such a low gravity beer. This beer was masterfully brewed.

“Works of Love (Earl Grey Tea)

A new series showcasing collaborations at Hill Farmstead with friends, this one brewed with Ryan Witter-Merithew of Siren Brewing. Low abv, hoppy blonde ale (3.7%) with Earl Grey tea; dry hopped with Amarillo, Citra and Centennial.”

Cheers!

 

I'm talking about BJC guidelines. Classifications are USEFUL, even if people in the UK stubbornly refuse to admit it. Hoppy is relative.
What I'm saying is based on the characteristics of New Belgium Hoppy Blonde, it's not comparable to an American IPA.
I remember in one thread you were arguing that everything is a pale ale. Fine. But I find a USEFUL distinction between an American Pale Ale, Session IPA, IPA, Double IPA, and in this case, a hoppy blonde ale.

 

yeah, i disagree, most session IPAs have a bitter finish, and most hoppy blondes, at least the few i've had which are usually dry hopped blonde ales, are very mellow bitterness but have some hoppy aroma and flavor but much more tame than the session IPAs.

 

Haha. Yes. That's the exact sort of marketing I'm talking about.

 

From what I understand they're the same. The terms are interchangeable. I personally prefer the term "double", because it just means it's stronger, because "Imperial" specifically referred to the stouts that were shipped to the Czars--although, obviously, it doesn't matter that much.

 

The BJCP is a set of guidelines for homebrewing competitions to enable competitors to pick the correct category for entry. It does not claim to be authoritative, in fact is full of errors and omissions.

 

Don't ever change @marquis

What about hoppy and bitter golden ales? They must be session IPAs too

 

All cheese isn't Tillamook? Blasphemy, wheres my clam gun? But look at it from the brewer/marketers standpoint. Most people want to know a little about something they are considering buying, especially if they are not familiar with it. Now they (the brewers/marketers) could attempt to market their hoppy beer (regardless of style) using strict BJCP guidelines and very very very few of the general populous would know what is in the bottle or have a clue what to expect. Or they can use shorthand flavor descriptors like IPA. There will be little confusion because the average consumer KNOWS that a IPA is hoppy, It's been drilled into them for decades. Just like putting "Belgium" in front means a certain yeast characteristic or "Wild" means sour. "Blond" is rapidly becoming the same thing meaning very light colored and light tasting. I am personally in favor of eliminating about half the "styles" listed by Beer judges and simply modifying the styles left with flavor descriptors.

 

What's a golden ale?

 

So-called styles derive from brewers' names and these were often arbitrary and even used interchangeably.It's not even possible to tie down a 19th century IPA (the ones actually going to India) because they evolved all the time.Add to that the domestic versions called IPA and the IPAs simply called Pale Ales.Then the effects of WW1 and the subsequent massive beer taxation led to a different version of IPA. There are plenty well known ones ; Greene King, Flowers, Charrington,Wells' Eagle , Deuchars , all of session strength and modest hopping , basically indistinguishable from a Bitter (itself simply an alternative word for Pale Ale)
So what is a REAL IPA ? There either isn't one or there are plenty , of different sorts.
A Golden Ale as a separate style is a CAMRA myth. Many very pale bitters have existed for a long time , Boddington's is a good example (or was before they wrecked it) and many were called Golden Ales.
see this by Ron Pattinson ( @patto1ro ) http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/lets-brew-wednesday-1952-strong-golden.html
It does seem to be used more these days for beers of theis colour using at least some US hops but many, many beers so named have been around since Moses wore short trousers.

 

In the UK perhaps, but mid-20th century in the US, the largest selling India Pale Ale (and likely the only one left*) was brewed by P. Ballantine & Sons, which sources say was ~6.5-7.5% abv, 60 ibu's (as well as "aged in the wood for one year" before bottling according to the label).

* Neuweiler in Allentown, PA brewed an IPA at various times during the post-Repeal era, but
it appears to have been dropped by the '60s and the brewery itself would close in 1968.​

 

'Session IPA'

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Yes, of course.My point was that IPA has changed its clothes over the years. Like the Toyota Corolla it kept the same name but most things changed.
Interestingly , British brewers in the late 1800s asked for a change in the taxation rules.
"ALE, PALE OR BITTER; brewed chiefly for the Indian market and for other
tropical countries.—It is a light beverage, with much aroma, and, in consequence of the regulations regarding the malt duty, is commonly brewed from a wort of specific gravity 1055 or upwards; for no drawback is allowed by the Excise on the exportation of beer brewed from worts of a lower gravity than 1054. This impolitic interference with the operations of trade compels the manufacturer of bitter beer to employ wort of a much greater density than he otherwise would do; for beer made from wort of the specific gravity 1042 is not only better calculated to resist secondary fermentation and the other effects of a hot climate, but is also more pleasant and salubrious to the consumer."

they thought that 4.5% ABV would make a better IPA.

 

As someone who has owned 4 Corollas from 1996 to 2008, I can say this is a bad analogy. In the last 25 years, the Corolla has remained mostly the same. It still has a 5 speed manual transmission and either a 1.6L or 1.8L gasoline engine. It still uses the same brake setup, it still uses the same McPherson Strut suspension. The configuration of the seats is the same. The only minor changes are even less of a change when you subtract industry-wide evolution of size and price. Even the speakers are located in the same place, the seat adjustments, turn signal, etc. You'd be hard-pressed to find big changes to any of the hundreds of core features.

Beer has been changing and evolving at a much more rapid pace, at least here in the US. The IPA scene in particular has constantly been changing for the last 10 years I've been into it. However beer styles and catagories are vitally important to me and many others and will remain useful for many years to come. Measurable metrics like ABV, SRM, IBU, and FG can tell you quite a bit about the liquid in your glass.

 

It was more of a tongue-in-cheek question, anyways. Imperial Pale Ale, Imperial Pilsener, the categories get more and more bent.

And then you get "beer".

Like: http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/14046/74504/

 

I can never tell if you know when I'm kidding.

I tend to agree with your grouping together philosophy, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here because I think it will lead to something interesting. Your link to Ron's page sort of disagrees with your main point. (Someone's got to tell Ron that he needs to start digging as far back as Moses' time.) Ron declares that "[Golden Ale] wasn’t just a fancy name for a bottled Pale Ale, but a significantly paler beer." He compares the color to Pilsner Urquell. Note that his use of the term "Golden Ale" even signifies that he is talking about something specific. Martyn Cornell agrees that it's nothing new, but he seems to consider it a "new British ale style." He described Exmoor Gold Ale as being made from pale lager malt and no crystal to bring it up to the amber of "most British bitters" (how dare he pluralize bitter ), and with the hoppiness of an IPA (throwing that last bit in there for its relevance in this thread).

He mentions that Boddington's was very pale, but it didn't kick off a new style and an army of imitators the way Summer Lightning did (as an ale designed to appeal to "lager drinkers"). It's important to note that Cornell does mention some "Golden Ales" that include "Bitter" in the name. So clearly there is the usual muddiness of logic in divisions. He claims, "With more than one in four British brewers making a golden ale, it is now as much a part of the nation's brewing history as porter or stout." Strong words, but there's an interesting thing there. If enough brewers are making it, and enough drinkers are recognizing it, is it a style regardless of what anyone here thinks? Is this the evolution of the category? With regards to the thread, it's worth noting that Cornell also mentions that some are labeled "blonde."

 

FWIW based upon this posted statement "Golden Ale" sure appears to be a style to me.

Cheers!