First all grain: Should I worry about water profile?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VolMD, Apr 5, 2016.

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  1. VolMD

    VolMD Initiate (0) Feb 2, 2016 Virginia

    I have finally acquired all the necessary items to start all-grain, where I previously was brewing extract. My first all-grain I will be trying my hand at a lager (Marzen), but I won't be doing a decoction, instead adding 0.5 lb of melanoidin malt to simulate the flavor and color (recommended by an experienced all-grain brewer).

    I pulled my water report (currently live in Fairfax, VA) and noticed that some of the ions and metals were off from the recommended profile for a Marzen/Oktoberfest according to Mr. John Palmer himself. My specific analysis is as follows:

    Calcium: 20.5 ppm
    Magnesium: 5.9 ppm
    Bicarbonate (HCO3-): 49 ppm
    Sulfate: 23 ppm
    Sodium: 47.8 ppm
    Chloride: 87.9 ppm
    pH: 7.7

    Would any of you fine brewers recommend I adjust my water for my first all-grain brew? Or should I not worry about it? Or maybe just use some gypsum to up the calcium level?

    Thanks guys and cheers!
     
    #1 VolMD, Apr 5, 2016
  2. YouMeUs13

    YouMeUs13 Initiate (0) Nov 7, 2013 California

    It would not hurt really... i just started playing with water and if you don't adjust it... itcan throw your flavors way off... might as well start of in the right direction
     
    #2 YouMeUs13, Apr 5, 2016
  3. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    My recommendation would be to (at least) enter your recipe and starting water profile in a mash pH calculator like the MpH Calculator or BrewCipher (which use the MpH models) to make sure your mash pH would be in an acceptable range without salt/acid additions. Beyond that, it's a matter of flavor, and you might want to not sweat that part for your first AG batch.
     
    #3 VikeMan, Apr 5, 2016
  4. VolMD

    VolMD Initiate (0) Feb 2, 2016 Virginia

    I quickly put in my recipe into EZ water calculator and looks like my mash pH will be around 5.6, which is down from my tap water being 7.7. Would this be an acceptable range and say add 4 grams of gypsum to bump up my calcium into the recommended ranges?
     
    #4 VolMD, Apr 5, 2016
  5. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,067) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Yes, 5.6 would be acceptable. And if you add those 4 grams of gypsum to the mash, that will lower your mash pH further. (And EZ Water will tell you how much.) But try not to get to hung up on "acceptable" mineral ranges. You've probably read something that says you "need" at least 50 ppm of calcium. Calcium helps yeast flocculate, but there's nothing magic about 50 ppm, and if it doesn't serve the style (say in a Bo Pils), don't feel bound by it.
     
    #5 VikeMan, Apr 5, 2016
  6. VolMD

    VolMD Initiate (0) Feb 2, 2016 Virginia

    Yeah that makes sense. I have been reading "How to Brew" and he recommends 50-150. My water profile is definitely below that, and the recommended for the Marzen is about 110. I guess I am trying to kill three birds with one stone...lower my pH and raise the calcium to match the style while aiding with yeast flocculation.
     
    #6 VolMD, Apr 5, 2016
  7. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Since you are brewing a lager (Marzen) the aspect of yeast flocculation is not a big concern. During the overall brewing process (including the lagering phase) there is plenty of time and proper conditions for the yeast to flocculate. if you were brewing an ale this would be more of a consideration.

    Cheers!
     
    #7 JackHorzempa, Apr 6, 2016
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  8. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    In Palmer's more recent book, Water, the recommendations for Märzen for Ca, Cl, and SO4 are 50-75, 50-150, and 0-100 ppm, respectively. (These are tabulated in MpH, by the way.) More Cl than SO4 is recommended as this is a malty style. Hence, to boost Ca it is probably best to add more CaCl than CaSO4. I don't know your exact recipe, but going with a 5 lb Pils, 5 lb Munich, and 0.5 lb Aromatic malt bill, I calculate a pH of ~5.62 for your water. Adding 3 gm CaCl and 2 gm CaSO4 to 5 gallons of mash water will bring the pH to ~5.51. Personally, I'd probably also use 1 oz of acid malt to bring the (calculated) pH to ~5.45. If you do not treat your sparge water, then for about 4.5 gallons of sparge water your overall Ca, Cl, and SO4 concentrations would be 56, 128, and 54 ppm, respectively (well within the ranges recommended in Water). Cheers!
     
    #8 utahbeerdude, Apr 6, 2016
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  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Mark, do you conduct thin mashes for your homebrewing?

    For 5 gallons of mash water and 10.5 lbs. of grain: 20 quarts/10.5 lbs. = a mash thickness of 1.9 qts./lb.

    Cheers!
     
    #9 JackHorzempa, Apr 6, 2016
  10. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Looking over my log sheets I see that most of my mashes are carried out somewhere between 1.5 and 2.1 quarts/lb. In general I mash with 5 gallons of water, no matter what the grain bill is. If I make a big beer (>1.070), which is rare, then the amount of water may be less, due to the limited size (7 gallons) of my mash tun. Cheers!
     
    #10 utahbeerdude, Apr 6, 2016
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  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Interesting.

    Cheers!
     
    #11 JackHorzempa, Apr 6, 2016
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  12. VolMD

    VolMD Initiate (0) Feb 2, 2016 Virginia

    This is great stuff! Thanks for the info. Here is the recipe...it's a clone for Gordon Biersch Marzen (hey taste is subjective don't judge!).

    • 6.5 lb (3 kg) Pilsner malt
    • 5.0 lb (2.3 kg) light Munich malt
    • 0.33 lb (150 g) Caramunich® malt
    • 1.1 oz (31 g) Hallertauer, 5% a.a., whole hops (60 min)
    • 0.4 oz (11 g) Hallertauer, 5% a.a., whole hops (10 min)
    • Wyeast 2124 or WLP830 yeast (Weihenstephan 34/70)
    I am also planning on adding about 1/2 pound of melanoidin since I plan on doing a single infusion instead of a decoction. Any thoughts or recommendations with adding the melanoidin and boiling for 90-120 minutes? Cheers!
     
    #12 VolMD, Apr 7, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
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