Belgians and their spices

The clove flavor is from a phenol: 4-vinyl guaiacol.

Banana flavor is from an ester: isoamyl acetate.

I frequently homebrew with the Westmalle yeast strain (Wyeast 3787) and this yeast strain will indeed produce both of these compounds/flavors.

Cheers!

 

Which of their beers is that strain used in?

More importantly, which are fermented at the right temps to produce the banana flavor?

I've not had Westmalle but I've had other Belgian trappist beers, although it has been quite a long time since I've had any actual trappist Belgians unfortunately

 

While these flavours that you speak of could have definitely been added (some beers are spiced with coriander and orange peel) but a lot of times, it is the yeast that offers these flavours. Any fruit flavours you might be tasting are more often than not of yeast origin.

 

You are correct that Belgian strains tend to produce high esters, but they are also some of the few strains that can produce high levels of phenols as well. Some add spices, but in the case of most Belgian beers and what the OP is asking about, the spice flavors are yeast derived.

 

The biggest fruit flavors I get in Belgian (dark fruit, some apple or pear) are almost certainly yeast derived.

 

"Banana" and "clove" have become such over abused terms and so, have become too generic of a term to carry any weight in my view. This is my biggest peeve with beers reviews. Anyone can just paste in the same description over and over to the point that reviews become robotic, repetative and lifeless. Certainly the beer had to leave a bigger impression on the reviewer, good or bad, to begin with?! What's the motivation or point then? Am I reading reviews all the white breads in the grocery store?
As for cheap Belgian beers that are true to the style, good luck. Most of the crafters "stylize" the classic Belgian beers too much and in doing so, create a bastardized faux version that is completely unbalanced, one dimensional or not even close to be worthy of the Belgian style name on the bottle. Any ones that are worth a darn, aren't cheaper. I.E. La Fin Du Monde.

 

Aside from certain beers, can you name anything that's not cloves that tastes like cloves? How about bananas? Got a different word for us? What should we use plaintain more often?

 

Excellent points. I have some demands to make as well. Reviewers need to stop using the words chocolate, fudgy, coffee, bready. Is this beer or is this Nestlé Toll House?
And IPAs...reviewers need to stop using juicy, citrus, mango, pineapple, grapefruit over and over again. This is beer, not the gosh darn produce section! Amirite?

 

This article has some thoughts about spicing among other things.
https://beerandbrewing.com/VMvilisAAKGj51nr/article/belgian-beer-youre-probably-doing-it-wrong

 

Great read here. Learned many things and added validity to some of my theories.

 

that's why their tripels are so good!

 

The two breweries that I can mention are Westmalle and Westvleteren. I would guess St, Bernardus as well?

There are likely others but I can’t specifically state their names.

Basically it is time for you to start homebrewing so you can figure this stuff out.

Cheers!

 

We use a small amount of star anise in The Sixth Glass, but the rest of the spicy flavors come from yeast/fermentation.

 

As I was stating

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, I tend to do that a lot!

 

St. Bernardus has their own yeast, which is what they also used back when they used to brew Westvleteren. Westvleteren used initially Rodenbach when they started producing commercial beer again. They switched to Westmalle when Rodenbach stopped selling yeast after Palm bought them.

The use of another breweries yeast is quite a rare affar in Belgium. Yeast is considered a company secret, source of their success (for the more traditional breweries at least), they aren’t going to share it just like that. I would be very surprised if anyone but Westvleteren uses Westmalle yeast.

Another rare example of sharing that comes to mind is Gengoulf who use Orval yeast.

 

Which popular belgian beers, trappist and non-trappist do not use any spices at all, but rather derive their tastes from yeast alone?

 

Don't be too down, it can be tricky to have Belgian Trappists. After all, they're monks and they've taken a vow of celibacy.

 

I can't comment to commercial brewing in Belgium but Westmalle yeast is readily available to brewers in the US (both homebrewers and commercial brewers) from both Wyeast (3787) and White Labs (WLP530). All that a commercial brewery needs to do is order a commercial sized package of WY3787/WLP830 and they can brew just like Westmalle.

I am unfamiliar whether Wyeast and White Labs services breweries in Europe but all it takes is some expedited deliveries (FedEx) and that can be done as well.

Cheers!

 

I have passing knowledge of Whitelabs & Wyeast, I always wondered where they get their yeast. My understanding was that they extracted them bottles in some cases & cultivated the offspring. Some stuff might be the real deal (think of the Sierra Nevada one), they list things like Duvel yeast. If they have the Duvel yeast why does Duvel keep a backup at KU Leuven in case of an emergency? I am also thinking of the popular story of Brettanomyces bruxellensis being isolated from an old 3 Fonteinen bottle. Isn’t Westmalle refermente with at least one more different yeast strain in the bottle?

I am not debating these yeasts being much different & I am certain that they produce similar results but some things do rise questions. Cate to share more light on the issue?

Trying to find info online, I found the suggestin that Achel might also be using the Westmalle yeast.

P.S.: I am not a homebrewer, my brewing knowledge is limited so forgive any stupid questions.

 

Belgian candy sugar leaves a very distinct flavor behind, I have used it as a priming sugar in a tripel I brewed and the flavor was almost overwhelming.