Northeast Pales/IPA/DIPA

Just finished with a ne style pale ale and dry hopped with 7 ounces split between two dry hopping sessions and that's about as low as I would go.

 

Also, can you tell me the thoughts behind the fermentation hops? I haven't heard of that yet. I may want to do that.

 

The idea is there are bio transformation caused by the yeast interacting with hop oils during fermentation. I am waiting for more science to come out about it, all I have seen and heard is speculation.

 

The idea came from @OldSock I figured I've never done that before so why not. Its the same idea as adding the hops towards the end of fermentation, while the yeast are still active. I'm a big believer in layering of different hops and hop additions, rather than one big addition.

 

I'm with you on waiting for scientific studies. It could just end up being a waste of hops, or it could actually do something to them. Until I see an actual study I can't say it makes a difference and I'm just going to do it for fun and experimentation.

 

I tried to contact BSI about biotransformations and testing the yeasts in my beers for oil interactions but never heard back.

 

right. I didnt know people were hopping as early as just after pitching yeast. I guess it cant hurt, but like you said, does it help.

 

There is some concrete information that has been tested. I'll dig up the articles, but the main transformation that is most noticeable is the transformation of geraniol to beta-citronella. There was even one experiment where the brewers used German Tradition and Coriander to get the geraniol content and the results in a tasting panel were said to be similar to the same recipe brewed with Citra. It is worth noting that I doubt it tasted truly like Citra, but rather it had some similar qualities. The article wasn't extremely specific.

That said, only some yeast strains appear to be efficient at bio-transformation, or at the very least, only some yeast strains provide the necessary esters to compliment the flavor compounds that have been transformed to make it appear more flavorful.

As for dry hopping during fermentation, I wouldn't do it early in fermentation since you want to have pressure relief and you will blow off volatile compounds from the dry hops. That's why I wait until there is about 2 degrees plato left in fermentation and then I cap our fermenter. That is a lot harder for most homebrewers, but is possible with a corny keg and a homemade spunding valve.

 

Here is an easy read article with a few points on biotransformation. After reading this article I experimented with using steam distilled Apollo oils from Hopsteiner. It is true that the Apollo oils (added to my hopback on a 15 BBL system) is making a significantly more citrus, tangerine flavor than what I would expect from whirlpooling or dry hopping with Apollo

http://allaboutbeer.com/article/flavor-hops/

 

good article, thanks for the link

Here is an interesting quote that goes along with a lot of this thread

"Dry hopping may eliminate one bit of the mystery for brewers, because post-fermentation hopping preserves much of the aroma in a freshly kilned hop. However, the translation is not direct, and Sierra Nevada brewmaster Steve Dresler said that can be good for his beer. The brewery has learned if yeast is not still active at the beginning of dry hopping, some odor compounds will not develop. “We don’t get the same floral estery notes in some other beers if we use the torpedo [dry hopping] process simply cold without yeast contact time,” he said."

 

Suddenly apollo is looking pretty desireable for an early dryhop...

 

Can you say more on the yeast strains? My guess is that certain British strains are the way to go.

 

In my experiments, I found that I could brew beers with Vermont Ale Yeast and WY1318 (the usual NEIPA suspects) and create beers that exhibit flavors that you wouldn't necessarily expect from looking at the malts and hops. I have some regulars that are homebrewers all from the same homebrew club at my brewery. Their club is known for their brutal reviews of others beers and they aren't afraid to tell me to my face if they think one of my beers sucks. They also have great palates. When I gave them my first test batch of DIPA brewed with Conan, I had used Cascade, Columbus, and Chinook. I told them nothing about the beer and I asked their opinion. Each one told me they liked it but that it was unlike any DIPA they'd had because it was lacking in bitterness completely, but full of what they perceived to be hop flavor. I asked them what hops they thought I used and one of them said "Clearly not the normal C hops... There is no Cascade, Centennial, Columbus, etc." He was very embarrassed when I told him it was all C hops. They were surprised that total in a 5 gallon batch I had used 12 oz. of hops, but I got that much hop flavor. My thought is that geraniol when bio-transformed into Beta-Citronella and combined with linalool gives a stronger impression of aroma and flavor than if you have the same amount of b-citronella alone. It is also possible that the yeast is creating stronger esters as well and that explains it, but it is very difficult to tell which flavors are esters and which flavors are hop compounds.

I suspect that lowly flocculant, flavorful English ale strains are more apt to biotransformation than other yeast strains.

 

@honkey

Do you typically cold crash this style of IPA?

Cheers

 

At home, no. In my 60 bbl fermenters at work, yes. I don't like for all of the suspended yeast to come through into our bottles, but rather I allow the yeast that won't settle to go through. Gravity is not on my side in a 20 foot fermenter.

 

They used a lager yeast in this BT study with Citra vs Corrainder.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2010.tb00428.x/pdf

 

I read that one a few years back, forgot about the lager yeast.

 

Funny... I have read that study a few times and I guess I have always skipped over the abstract... Very first sentence.

 

The study I linked didn't use dry hops. This scientifically confirms BT happens with late kettle hops. I don't think I've seen a study that uses dry hops for BT. Maybe one exists? Intuitively, dry hops should BT.

Citra is a hop that I want zero BT from the dry hop. Citrus is easy to achieve with another hop. Lychee aroma is a rare gem from Citra that gets converted to boring Citrus with a BT dry hop.

I have a Citra beer in the fermenter now and refuse to dry hop it sooner than 2 weeks. Lychee will happen and it will be a pleasure to whiff.

IMO, honkey is using a very good application of BT professionally. He is using rather mundane and cheap hops to achieve more desirable results that wouldn't be possible with the same hops and no BT.

 

My attempt was certainly the most aromatically hoppy beer pre-traditional-dry-hopping that I've made... but I didn't think after the two additional rounds that it was especially productive. Might be a good tool for say a hoppy Belgian or hefeweizen where you don't want any raw hop aroma. Just another tool.