Gun Hill Brewing Co.

I haven't had any issues with Kelso. These were IPAs that were specifically Greenpoint beers, at least that's what the blackboard said. Since then I've just concentrated on other brewers when I'm at a bar.

 

I was only aware of Sixpoint beers being brewed at City Brewing in Memphis, TN and at the Sixpoint brewery in Brooklyn. Which Sixpoint beers are contract brewed at Greenpoint Beer Works?

Cheers!

 

We're going to need a NY area contract brewery 6th degree of separation line diagram for this.

 

That's not confusing. ;-)

It's probably better to use a Venn diagram.

 

These things tend to change every few months, but the gypsy/contract partnerships in NYC look something like this (though some of these partnerships may have changed and it should be noted that several of these are in the midst of plans to open physical locations):

212 Beer: Greenport Harbor
Alphabet City: Shmaltz
Brewski: High Point
Braven: Olde Saratoga
City Island: Paper City
Dyckman: Thomas Hooker
Grimm: Beltway, Flagship
Harlem Brewing: Olde Saratoga
Harlem Blue: Cooperstown
Heartland Brewery/Houston Hall: Greenpoint Beerworks
Queens Brewery: Shmaltz, Saratoga
Radiant Pig: Thomas Hooker
Secret Engine: Rocky Point
Staten Island Beer Company: Broken Bow
Third Rail Beer: Coastal Extreme
War Flag: Shmaltz

 

Sorry if I come across as being nit-picky. I mean all of this respectfully.
In your two thoughts above, you are saying modern=amazing and established≠amazing. These things aren't related.
Gun Hill won a gold GABF medal in '14 for foreign stout. I really don't know what would qualify as "world class," but certainly a GABF gold medal is something. You don't need to wait!

I honestly don't know what you mean by this. I've only tried two of their beers: an IPA and an Alt. I can assure you they didn't taste the same.

Yeah, this is unfortunately the case. Make a new recipe and a new name, put it out there and then repeat with another new one. It's unappealing. People can't have the same beer twice.

 

I've had quality issues with Greenpoint Beer & Ale too, but I haven't totally ruled them out because I've also had some really great beers from them that have no substitute in the city. For me, there's a very big jump between the highs and lows. At this point, I stick to their offerings in the realm of bitter and mild if I take the plunge. (The imports they serve on draught at their location are a total minefield.)

 

As an old Bronx guy, i am a fan of Gun Hill Brewery but as a fan of beer, diversity at a brewery is always welcome. Even tho I only get to the brewery every 6-8 weeks, it is a little disheartening to pretty much see the same 4 out of 5 beers that were on tap from the last time. I do not walk out to look somewhere else, because i do like their beers and i am very happy to drink what they have, but now with a new brewer and the hope of new beers, my visits might become more frequent.

 

Thanks for your input. If the guy wasn't a good fit then it's as simple as that. A brewery needs to sell beer. It's probably disheartening for a brewer to receive little sustained commercial interest in his/her award winning beers... while making more commercial product that he/she might not fully believe in. That's life. You're saying that it's not about making what's popular, it's about the fact that they aren't selling their beer and the customers want other things... There's some contradiction in that logic, but it doesn't matter. Personally, I'm a fan of focus over diversity. I also wish that 20 different beers in the first three years of the life of a small brewery looked like a big number to people rather than a small one. My preferences really don't matter at all though. If you end up loving their new direction, that's great. Maybe things will be better, but there's no guarantee. I hope it works out for everyone.

 

FWIW I share your thoughts here but based upon my observations in the Philly area the MO for 'new school' craft breweries (i.e., open 5 years or less) is to produce lots and lots of different beers. The Poster Child here is Tired Hands: they brew only two 'regular' beers:

• HopHands (APA)
• SaisonHands (Saison)

All of their other beers are either on-off beers or rotating. Right now at their two locations (a few blocks apart) they have a total of 19 beers on tap. In other words right now, at this moment, they have the equivalent on tap with three years of Gun Hill's production.

It seems to me that the contemporary beer scene is lots and lots and lots of variety, at least for the beer geek market.

Cheers!

 

No doubt. There is a lot of "more" today.
We see "more" beers in the portfolios, beer formulation ("this beer has more ___"), and number of breweries. Some breweries don't want to be seen as static because that is translating as "we have nothing of interest to offer you... but our competitors might." It's like a race between the brewery and the consumer, but the brewery wants to keep an even pace with the target consumer. Some breweries that are more immune to this are the ones that produce beers that are considered "classics." The question is: how many new "classics" will develop from the race environment?

 

I am uncertain how to properly respond to the word "immune" here. I have become good friends with a gentleman that was previously the beer buyer for a local beer retailer who is now a sales representative for a craft brewery that has been operating for about just under 30 years. I ran into him at a tasting session he conducted and asked how he liked his new job. He replied that he liked the owners and other employees but that he was having a challenging time selling the beers since they were "classics" and the beer consumers found them to be boring. This fellow really knows his beers and as a former beer retailer he really, really knows the local craft beer customer base. I tried the influence one of my other local beer retailers to let this fellow conduct a beer tasting but he responded with a shrug. He informed me that while the brewery makes excellent beers they just 'sit' in his store.

I personally appreciate beers that are "classics" and apparently you do as well but at least in my local beer market we appear to be not the 'majority' when it comes to craft beer sales.

Cheers!

 

We have met the enemy and he is us.

 

Well, that is certainly the case for the beer geek market. I am definitely part of that crowd and you will read more about my 'issues' this Sunday as I review a can of Tired Hands Alien Church IPA.

With my 'confession' out of the way I also greatly enjoy drinking "classics" whether they be US craft brewed "classics" (e.g., Sierra Nevada Pale Ale) or European style beers.

This summer I will be drinking plenty of homebrewed Kolsch, Tmavý Ležák (Czech Dark Lager), Bohemian Pilsners, Classic American Pilsner,…

I have already bought one 12-pack of Troegs Sunshine Pilsner and hopefully in a few days (or couple of weeks?) a Straub Sunshine Sampler Pack (Hefeweizen, German Pilsner, Kolsch and Vienna Lager).

I suppose some BAs might accuse me of being schizophrenic since I do indeed enjoy drinking BIG & BOLD US craft brewed beers (I had a draft glass of Founder Sumatra Brown last weekend and I thought that beer was OUTSTANDING!!) and I absolutely love subtle beers like Kolsch.

It’s all good!!

Cheers!

 

I don't doubt that this is often the case, but it's not so cut and dry. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is an example of a classic that sells very well... but this is clearly not "a dime a dozen" situation. I wonder if it's too late in the game for a new brewery to come out with something that can achieve something similar in time. Of course, this doesn't stop Sierra from balancing things out and coming out with a Beer Camp box of beers that a consumer hasn't had before and might not be able to have again. The marketing behind that effort is huge. I'm sure that in general you drink both the classics and the one-offs... as do I and many others.

It's interesting to look to certain European breweries that operate under a different model... that only have a few beers in their portfolio. If the community considers such beers to be "classics," then it's one way they manage to survive or avoid the situation of having their beers "just sit in the store" (relatively... and some better than others). Despite this, there is still a lot of pressure to "innovate" or be left behind. B United really drives this in to the brands that they represent. Schlenkerla refuses to go outside their traditions (apologies to the folks who'd want this, but there are probably no plans for a Schlenkerla stout just yet )... but they did decide to change things up within their own vision of themselves by doing the oak smoked beer. I really wonder about this kind of pushing. Do we run the risk of losing something in the process (as "progress" often does), or is this necessary for the brewery to stay healthy in the long run. I have no idea. I do think that the styles and beers that we see as bedrocks are actually often quite modern and don't represent a long tradition as much as we think.

BOY! Sorry for that. The attempt to make a dedicated thread for Gun Hill news sorta took an immediate left turn and I hope I'm not taking it off the rails now.

@TongoRad

 

Love those unloved by beer geek styles you pointed out but don't think I've had a Czech dark lager - sounds nice I need to look out for one.

 

I would suggest this greatly depends on the local customer base and the business economics of the given brewery. An established brewery that has little to no debt obligations and a 'long term' customer base that sufficiently purchases their beers can be a business success (i.e., be able to stay in business). For a craft brewery that has just recently opened in the US (or likely even Europe for that matter) they likely will have to take a differing tact in order to remain economically viable. I would guess that there are more than enough US craft breweries making "classics" that it would be very difficult for a new US craft brewery to sufficiently sell enough beers in this part of the craft beer market. If those 'new' breweries cater to the local beer geek market they have a chance to succeed but they need to adequately serve these customers; making only 30 different brands over three years will not 'cut it' in that particular situation.

Cheers!