Northeast Pales/IPA/DIPA

I split my dryhop additions on specific styles as well, but not because I get more aromatics from a split dryhop addition. I get a DIFFERENT hop profile, both in flavor and in aromatics. But when I use one addition I am not "missing out on hop aroma" as was suggested earlier.

 

How can you say that with certainty? Isn't that a chemical reaction? Maybe you have but that's the first time I have seen mention of that process happening post fermentation. Personally, I think the price of hops and the beer losses to hop matter are not enough to dissuade me from adding them in bunches and at multiple stages. I like them on day 3 and day 7. I then rack to a dry hop keg on day 10 to agitate in there for 3 days, then I then rack to my serving keg with more in there. Next time I'm going to add some on day 0 of primary just to see what it does if anything. Maybe its overkill but it certainly isn't making it worse.

 

My most recent split batch experiment involved a first dryhop addition that was added after fg was hit, and the two resulting beers had vastly different hop profiles.

 

It coincides with my yeast experiment. The hop profiles of both beers were very different.

 

http://brulosophy.com/2016/06/20/th...g-in-a-ne-style-pale-ale-exbeeriment-results/

Interesting Exbeeriment here. Apparently gelatin can't even clear one of these Turbid beasts.

 

^I've done the same experiment with 1318 and a bunch of hops and oats, but ended up with a considerably clearer gelatin half. The effect on flavor and aroma was stronger as well, with the gelatin destroying hop aroma and also stripping away most of the body. I shared the beers with a few people and everyone preferred the cloudy unfined beer by a mile.

Just goes to show that there are so many variables in homebrewing that you need to run experiments for yourself, on your own system. As a result of that experiment, I never use finings after dry hopping. If you want an aromatic, clearer beer, gelatin before dry hop is good, but gelatin after dry hopping is just a waste of hops, IMO.

 

This is where I got my homebrew double dry hop technique from: right here on BA from someone who might know more than us about how to make a NEIPA.

Edit: after re-reading this I realize he's only describing a single dry hop, but if you throw in another closed transfer and dry hop, you'll get the DDH version of Trillium versus the regular. BT dryhop then a traditional dryhop is definitely something that works for homebrewers however, and it has certainly been documented. The whole layering thing doesn't have much to do with this DDH technique.

 

did I ever get to you on this?

 

I've recently brewed a "New England" style IPA using various techniques, oats, fermentation hoping, etc, from this thread and other locations. It was definitely hazy, but with time in the keg it ended up clearing out somewhat and the flavor and aroma profile was noticeably different. Towards the end of the keg it became murky (the picture was after it cleared up) again and reminded me of what it was in the beginning. Oddly enough the beer took second place as an APA and didn't move to the second round as an IPA.

A few weeks ago I brewed an APA without oats and fermentation hops prior to yeast pitching, but using the same yeast (1318). I've only had it on tap for about a week, but its super murky (sorry I don't have a picture yet). I was surprised that it came out that turbid. My initial tasting so far are very hop forward, but more bitter than hop flavor. Granted, not a true comparison, since my hops are different and it's a lower ABV, but I found the appearance interesting.

 

Just an update... My DIPA just kicked yesterday that was a mistakenly made "NE-IPA". After two and a half months, aroma was still vivid and still completely turbid. No oats or flour to give that appearance. I drank my beer side by side with Julius and Haze, Heady, etc... Appearance wise, no different. Aroma just as pungent. Water profile was def west coast, with high SO4 and low CL (11:1 ratio or so).

Again, for this specific beer it was just a standard DIPA with S-04 pitched. Fermented out 10 days to FG before adding the hefty dry hop (9oz for 5-gallon). The hop stand was 3-4oz I believe between 160-170F for 40mins. Even used whirlfloc at the end of the boil. Big bittering charge at the start of the boil (3oz Columbus, 90min boil) and minor late additions, then the hop stand. I am not hop bursting by any means.

My current APA I will keg tomorrow I changed some stuff to actually avoid the turbidness. No hop stand and cold crashed prior to dry hop. We shall see how this one goes. It may just strictly be how much hops I am using. This APA also had 8oz dry hop. My next DIPA is up to 22oz between boil/hop stand/dry hop.

FWIW, you don't need flour/oats and other trickery to reach the NE Style. Even my previous IPA was the same (Azacca single hop IPA... only 8oz used total for 5-gallon in comparison with US-05 yeast). I dunno, maybe I just have that special "IT" factor for making these NE Style IPA's in Cleveland

 

Thanks for that report.

At the risk of putting words in your mouth: If you brew a hoppy beer (e.g., Pale Ale, IPA, DIPA) but use an English ale yeast (e.g., S-04, Wyeast 1098, WLP007, Wyeast 1318,...) the net result is a hazy hoppy beer (e.g., a “New England” style IPA)?

Cheers!

 

I used US-05 for my Azacca single hop with the same result. So it wasn't unique to just my S-04 use. My APA that I will enjoy this weekend was brewed with WY1056. So I will report back on that when it's ready to go. But if anything, the new APA should be clear unless the dry hop alone is doing it. I cold crashed out the yeast, no hop stand, no oats/flour/whatever and very aggressive water profile (SO4 was 350ppm, CL like 24ppm).

We shall see!

 

That beer was murky like a "New England" style IPA? If so, you obtain results very different from me.

Last fall I brewed a clone of Pliny the Elder using US-05 which I generously late hopped including 4 ounces for dry hopping (5 gallon batch). Below is a photograph of that beer at bottling (after 3 weeks of primary); that beer was not murky.

Cheers!

 

Certainly not just any English yeast. Wyeast 1968 results in very clear hoppy beers for me.

 

Yep, here is my Azacca after being in the keg for 1.5 months, so it did clarify some at this point. My DIPA never did though.



And my DIPA (with significantly more hops and S-04 Yeast):



Side by side (Azacca Left, DIPA Middle)

 

So the beer brewed with US-05 did clarify at some point but the beer brewed with S-04 did not clarify over a timeframe of 2.5 months? Am I understanding that properly?

Cheers!

 

Yes, I would say that is a fair assessment. It cleared SOME, it never really cleared. But the S-04 DIPA was just as turbid as the day I tapped it over two months later. Again, it also had nearly double the hop stand, dry hop, etc... So that could have been part of the reason, I don't know lol. S-04 is supposed to flocculate better than US-05, so not sure it was the yeast particularly.

 

Yes, S-04 has a reputation of being a good flocculating yeast when used to brew British style beers; it has always been that way when I used it to brew British style beers.

I have a clone of Trillium Galaxy Fort Point Pale Ale that is bottle conditioning right now. I used S-04 to brew this beer and at bottling the beer was quite turbid (see photograph below).

There seems to be some sort of synergistic effect between certain English ale yeast strains (e.g., S-04, Wyeast 1098, WLP007, Wyeast 1318) and generous late hopping of hops which are high in essential oils. It has been my experience that you need you need both of these aspect to achieve murky, "juicy" beers. Your experience in brewing a very hoppy beer using US-05 seems like another data point in proving that out since that beer did not remain murky throughout.

I chose to photograph this beer with a background of writing to better illustrate the amount of turbidity; you can't distinguish the words behind the beer.

Cheers!