Young Flanders Red and adding Vinegar

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by OldBrewer, May 31, 2016.

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  1. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    That's good to hear!
     
    #21 OldBrewer, Jun 2, 2016
  2. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Keep in mind that the flavor of lactic is nothing like the flavor of acetic. They are both sour, but have very different flavors. The oxygen will help form acetic, but it will take time. Keep us posted as to how it goes.
     
    #22 Naugled, Jun 2, 2016
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  3. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    I added 50 ml of lactic acid last night. It did give it a little more "sour" taste, but not the sharp balsamic-like taste I was hoping for. But it was quite dry (S.G. 1.008), so maybe back-sweetening it a bit with Xylitol might make the taste come out more and bring it closer to the sweetness of the Rodenbach Vintage. That and carbonation might improve it.

    I really need to learn my tastes - I'm now totally confused as to what in a sour actually differentiates those vinegary, sour, acetic, balsamic etc. flavours. Is there any good documentation on what yeasts/bacteria in a sour gives what types of tastes? Also, can Komucha be used in a beer? It also has a similar taste.
     
    #23 OldBrewer, Jun 2, 2016
  4. jmarsh123

    jmarsh123 Initiate (0) Mar 31, 2010 Indiana
    Trader

    Good luck. I hope you can get the character you want, but in my experience it's hard to speed up a Flanders and have the complexity of a nice aged beer. We have several breweries close by that make a "fake" Flanders i.e. adding lactic acid and it is solid, but just lacks the complexity I look for in a Flanders.
     
    #24 jmarsh123, Jun 2, 2016
  5. Naugled

    Naugled Pooh-Bah (1,944) Sep 25, 2007 New York
    Pooh-Bah

    Here are my descriptions of some acid flavors:

    Lactic: clean, tangy (like yogurt), soft, tart, crisp, sour can be intense but not harsh.
    Acetic: pungent, strong, sour can be harsh and intense, very distinct flavor of vinegar.

    Acetic is typically not desirable in beer, with the exception of a few styles, Flanders being one of them.

    A good book to read if you want to learn more is American Sours by @OldSock
     
    #25 Naugled, Jun 2, 2016
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  6. Davl22

    Davl22 Maven (1,341) Sep 27, 2011 New Hampshire
    Trader

    #26 Davl22, Jun 3, 2016
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  7. machalel

    machalel Initiate (0) Jan 19, 2012 Australia

    I'd be really hesitant doing this. I've only tried one beer that had artificial sweeteners in it, and it had a horrid aftertaste!
     
    #27 machalel, Jun 3, 2016
    OldBrewer likes this.
  8. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    So much to comment on in this thread i think i forgot half of it by the time i got to the bottom of the thread
    1. As was said previously acetic acid is typically not considered a good thing in any real quantity, a subtle hint if at all
    2. DO NOT add xylitol, i did this once with a pieapple cider and it caused horrible autolysis (burnt rubber flavors)
    3. DO NOT aerate this beer, other things like ethyl acetate will form quickly (nail polish remover)
    I would keg the beer now and force carb, taste when carbed and adjust acid or vinegar in a glass to get proportions right. Hopefully you wont get the meaty/wheaty flavor (not much of a better descriptor) that typically happens early in the keg/bottle. My experiences are this typically takes 3-4months to age out

    Also for sweetening i would suggest using homemade malt syrup (mash similar grist omitting wheat/adjuncts - and boil till thick), have a light touch when adding this because it is easy to over sweeten
     
    #28 ryane, Jun 3, 2016
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  9. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Thank you - that will help a lot. I do have OldSock's book, haven't read it all, but couldn't quickly find what I was looking for in terms of adding vinegar, acetic acid or lactic acid. Based on what I have read so far, the book is excellent, but the index didn't work well for me (for example, I couldn't find 'Rodenbach' or even 'Flanders Red' in the index, until I just happened to stumble on the index phrase "Flemish Red"). Once I have finished reading it, I might create my own personal index for reference purposes.
     
    #29 OldBrewer, Jun 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  10. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Thank you - I had been wondering whether balsamic vinegar could be added directly.
     
    #30 OldBrewer, Jun 3, 2016
  11. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    I've had success adding Xylitol to a fruit beer. It wasn't too bad - much better than other artificial sweeteners. I was thinking of only adding perhaps a half cup, since it is currently much more dry than a Rodenbach.
     
    #31 OldBrewer, Jun 3, 2016
  12. OldBrewer

    OldBrewer Maven (1,385) Jan 13, 2016 Canada (ON)

    Thank you - I finally decided to add lactic acid rather than acetic acid. It did improve it somewhat. As for Xylitol, I added one and a half cups to a strawberry Wit and it tasted OK. I was only planning to add maybe a half cup to make it a little less dry and bring out the flavour more. Thanks also for the advice about not aerating it, although that conflicts with other advice provided by a previous person to aerate it. I kegged the beer 2 days ago, although I haven't cold crashed and force carbonated it yet. I'll do that today after I decide about what to do with back-sweetening it a little.
     
    #32 OldBrewer, Jun 3, 2016
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