Tracking Shows Delivered But Box Not There

I didn't say it was his responsibility – just that the problem wouldn't have happened if it had been sent with a signature requirement.

There are a lot of things we can do to help make sure the beer arrives safely in the hands of the other trader. A signature requirement is one of those things.

 

I have no problem sending a consolation box, my issue lies with sending his beers back or sending beers worth what I sent him. The beers were left on the porch for 4 hours, when he arrived home they weren't there, does it really fall on me for my package to remain on someone's porch unstolen for 4 hours ? When he didn't request for the signature, as many people above have noted, if you know you aren't going to be home to accept delivery or know that a box on your porch could be susceptible to theft who's responsibility should it be to step up and ask for a signature ?

 

Not at all, your responsibility truly ended when it was delivered safely. A consolation box of whatever you send would be fine imo. This is a learning experience, albeit not a good one, for your trading partner. They need to request signature required.

 

I would say unfortunately yes, at least according to established trading community conventions, which (AFAIK) are that it's the responsibility of the sender until the box is safely in the hands of the receiver.

 

I disagree and I'm sure many others do as well.

 

This strikes me as odd as for contracts wise the contract is formally agreed upon by the mailbox rule; which is when the signed contract is put in the mail, despite the fact as to whether the recipient ever receives it, they will still be held to that contract. In this instance I wouldnt go as far to say that that should apply but I would agree that if it is delivered, the driver states so, and it is left unattended on the porch for multiple hours then the sender should be off the hook. This is of course my opinion, and wonder if it is a circumstantial thing, someone with 100 feedback versus little to none, someone who was home when it was "deliverered" or someone who was home minutes after, versus an hour or hours. Lastly i am also of the opinion that if I'm not going to be home and I know it is a bottle that isn't replaceable the it should be me who says hey I'll throw you an extra if you can request delivery signature. Would be curious to hear from people who this has never happened to

 

Or the opposite... I'm sure a lot of boxes wouldn't get delivered then, because people for the most part are not home to give a sig when boxes are delivered (weekday standard business hours).
How many times do they attempt to re-deliver? I know UPS has a 3x rule.

Is your expectation that the person stay at home to get the box on the scheduled delivery date?

Has this trader had things stolen before? Could be the first time.
Do you have contact info to maybe find social media accounts? Unfortunately wouldn't be the first time someone claimed a box never arrived but then they've been caught drinking the beers.

Here's some info:
http://videocenter.van.fedex.com/learn/signature-required

 

no

Trader says this is the first time something like this has occurred. Unsure about any social media. I do not expect someone to stay at home all day, however what I do when i know I won't be home and it's a big beer, i will usually request for the package to be held at a local office to pick up when i can.

 

I've shipped a lot of boxes with a signature requirement, and have never had this happen.

It doesn't have to be the actual trader who signs, just some responsible party, and the recipient can have the box held for pickup or routed elsewhere if they want. Also FedEx and UPS both do evening deliveries now, at least in some areas.

 

A counterpoint I'd like to mention: The only time I've ever had a trading partner request that a package be held at the local FedEx location for pickup, an employee at the FedEx location got suspicious (maybe head some liquid noise?) and opened the box. It was returned to me after numerous conversations with FedEx and my trading partner, and I had to re-ship it.

Generally I prefer a box of beer to be out of the hands of FedEx employees as much as possible because of carelessness/damage or curiosity.

 

* without leakage or breakage upon opening

 

I agree, the less time it sits in Fedex hands the better.
I have had two people change the routing option on me to hold at Fedex without telling me, and you better believe I was nervous to see that and pissed they hadn't sent a quick note to say they were doing that. Then one of them let it sit there for 5 days (he was in town/home) without explanation. Unacceptable.

 

The instance I was referring to was done without my knowing too. The day it was supposed to be delivered, I checked the tracking and it had a "delivery exception", which scared the shit out of me. Then I came to find out he redirected it without telling me, and then all of that happened next.

 

It is not the shippers responsibility if something is stolen. FedEx made a successful delivery.

I ALWAYS ask my trading targets if they want a signature upon delivery.

If they say "no signature needed", and then it is stolen, I view it as my end is "technically" finished. That said, I've spent HOURS on the phone with FedEx before trying to find the box and thankfully they've always been successful.

I always tell my trading partners that no signature is needed for my box. I would never hold them responsible for what could possibly be stolen from my front porch nor would I expect them to make good on another box. And the same thing has happened more than a few times in 350+ boxes over the years... A box says "delivered", even when I have been sitting watching TV 20 feet from my front door. I immediately get on the horn to FedEx and ask them to run a trace... Then I call the local hub and ask them to have the driver call me directly. Again, thankfully they've always been successful and only ever lost one box and that was because a growler leaked (and even that time, I was able to go and pick up the extras ) //knocking on wood//

 

FSU Law I don't think personally I would ever ship a Mega Whale like Scoop to anyone with ZERO Trade History....it's funny how things like this amazingly happen when it's a 200+ dollar bottle and a new trader is involved...not accusing him of anything but a trade like you did I need to see a damn fine trading track record before I mail a bottle like that...

And to the issue at hand...if a BOX says delivered my responsibility is done...I can't be held responsible if your neighbors steal boxes...in my case when I'm trading I know my UPS Guy's Schedule like clockwork as he comes between 11:30 to 12:30 and I make a point to be home on delivery day

 

No – a successful delivery is one that results in the package in the hands of the intended recipient. In this case (and in most others like it), you can only assume that the package was stolen. It may have been stolen, or it may have been delivered to the wrong address, or it may have never been delivered at all and is sitting in a warehouse somewhere – unless there's video of someone stealing it off the porch, you don't know for sure what happened.

As the sender I can choose to ship via FedEx or UPS or USPS or China Post or dogsled, and it's also up to me whether I pay for overnight delivery or three-day or economy ground, and it's up to me whether the package is insured, and whether the shipper is to notify the receiver about delivery progress, and whether any sort of delivery confirmation is required, etc etc – in other words, I decide how the box is sent, so it's my responsibility to make sure it gets to the other person. Unless I've cleared it with the recipient ahead of time, shipping in a way that results in the box being left in a public space where it can be stolen is a risk I am assuming, and it's up to me to make it right if something happens because I decided to take that risk.

 

Scoop is a ~$35 beer. It's on Cycle's facebok or IG somewhere.

How was this resolved? If someone redirected without me knowing, then let it sit (reached the destination they requested!), then it got seized or returned, I'd say it's their fault.

 

Luckily FedEx didn't take the stance of "this is illegal and we're destroying it". They cited that it's against company policy to ship alcohol and that they couldn't hold it and allow my trading partner to pick it up. They would have to return it to the sender (me). Once I received it, I paid to reship it. I'm pretty sure I used UPS the second time too just to be safe.

EDIT: Luckily with hundreds of trades over the past 5+ years, this instance and the one this thread was created about are the only issues I've had.

 

This doesn't make any sense so we can agree to disagree. This type of responsibility sets every trader to be taken advantage of by a dishonest trader that can simply say "the package never showed up".

Pretty sure he was talking about secondary.

 

He knows that, but no website is complete without one Mr Pedantic and one Mr Grammar