Critique my first All Grain brew day.

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Hogue2112, Jun 13, 2016.

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  1. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    Ok! So yesterday we made our first AG beer! Bells two hearted clone to compare against our extra version.

    Rahr 6 row - 4.25lb
    Briess Golden Promise 2 row - 15lb
    Crystal 40 - 12 ounces
    1.75 oz centennial at 45min
    1.75 at 30min
    A good bit of dry hop.
    California 5 (1.9L)
    Boil Time - 75 min (90 min actual)
    Mash 150 for 45 min (3 gallons)
    Ramp up to 170 over 15 min (3.75 gallons)
    Used 5.2 for mash water.

    7.5 gallon yield.

    Ok. So lot's of things happened, and I thought I was prepared. Despite watching numerous youtube vids and reading everything I could find without becoming super annoyed with some dude explaining the need to have hotter strike water then ideal mash temp, we made mistakes.

    First off, we had a stuck sparge. The directions we were given outlined above for the mash volume I believe are totally wrong. That is so much grain for 3 gallons of water. And adding 3.75 gallons at the end isn't going to do much with the consistency of the grain at the bottom, quickly. Tried to force unstuck sparge by adding more water (fly sparging) and stiring but had no luck. Ended up dumping mash into the brew pot, throwing some sparge water in the tun, give it a good ol' swish, and re added mash back to cooler. (LOL. This shit was hectic and stressful. Lot's of beer was consumed after this event.) Lautered fine and drained pretty, light amber runnings into brewpot. I was a little surprised that the fly sparging we did worked well being the first time, but was able to keep roughly 1 inch of water above the grain bed no problem! We originally were going to sparge out 9.9 gallons to accommodate boil off, etc. But the runnings looked good still, and were measured at 1.042, so we pulled it out to 11 gallons and shut her down. After our 90 min boil OG was still a little low (probably from pulling 1.1 more gallons, another LOL) so we boiled an extra 15 min and OG was at 1.055. We cooled and poured beer back into the cleaned and sani'd mash tun (we were worried about not divvying up the yeast correctly in two separate primaries, first time we have had to do that) Pitched there at 70 degrees, aerated like crazy and poured into two primaries. Yielded 8 gallons at 1.055.

    So - here are pics in primaries. I have never seen this cloudy of beer. It looks like egg drop soup. Is this normal with the AG process? Never noticed with extract this bad. Could all that be cold break? These pictures are the same primary, but about 2 minutes part. Lots of settling with that cloud.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Anyway - cheers! That was a fun evening!
     
  2. A2HB

    A2HB Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2013 Michigan

    Hey man congrats on your first AG, looks like you overcame all your setbacks, and got beer in the fermenter so that's awesome. That stuff in the carboy is no biggie, it's all going to churn up and absorb into your beer once active fermentation starts, it's totally normal. Enjoy, it's gonna be the best beer you've made, AG rules!
     
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  3. ssam

    ssam Pundit (997) Dec 2, 2008 California

    I wouldn't say it looks totally normal, but yes, that looks like cold break.
     
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  4. Brewday

    Brewday Zealot (721) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    Next time you get a stuck sparge, open the ball valve, place a bucket underneath and stick a coat hanger in a few times. Works good.
     
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  5. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    Looks good to me! just lots of hop trub and cold break material beginning to settle in there. That'll usually give it the 'egg drop soup' look. Any signs of fermentation kicking off yet? congrats on your first AG brew. It'll get easier once you hone in on your own methods and practices
     
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  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I have read numerous times that 5.2 stabilizer does not work. You may have experienced a non-optimum mash pH depending on the water you used. Did you measure your mash pH?
    3 gallons of mash water is insufficient for your grain bill. You want a mash thickness somewhere in the 1-2 quarts/lb. range.

    Cheers!
     
    DrMindbender likes this.
  7. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    Congrats on trying all grain. Here's a few thoughts to hopefully help you streamline next time....

    Photo looks like a lot of cold break. It should be ok at the end of the day, maybe a bit hazier than you would like.

    Why 6 Row versus 2 Row? I can't think of too many uses for 6 row other than a classic american pils.

    For your next mash, don't follow any recipe exactly and calculate your mash water temp and volume and sparge water temp and volume. It sounds like you mashed too thick. I usually mash at 1.5 quarts per pound of grain.

    I agree with @JackHorzempa to ditch the 5.2 mash stabilizer. It really doesn't work anyway. For your first few AG batches I just wouldn't worry about water chemistry at all. Get the rest of your process down. Then look into either building up from RO water or getting your local water source analyzed.
     
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  8. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    I plan on getting my local water analyzed. The house water is quite filtered, I might take some pictures and see if you guys know exactly is going on with the filtration and how it may affect the local water being fed into it. We'll see how it tastes! Hopefully great! The water tastes amazing out of the tap.

    @Lukass It is fermenting like a champ! I have the two blow offs heading into a growler filled with water. I did not check it this morning, and am legitimately worried that the roommate may discover a spillover before I get home today.

    @JackHorzempa Our LHBS swore by it, and has mentioned it in all of the classes I have attended. It would be intersting to measure the PH before I add the stabilizer and then after. I do not have any strips (heard they are pretty inaccurate) and do not have another appliance for monitoring. I figured introducing this would be better than doing no treatment.

    @kellyst Is there a way to reduce cold break "material"? We use whirlflock too. The recipie called for a bit of 6 row. We blindly followed it because it was the same write-up as the extract we brewed a while back. Same website page, etc. Wanted to have a comparison between extract and AG. Yeah, I am a little upset that we followed that mash - it totally messed up our brew.
     
  9. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Golden Promise is not made by Briess...unless an acquisition happened overnight :slight_smile:...what I did find interesting on Briess' website though, is that they offer a Full Pint malt @ 1.7 L (vs GW @ ~2.2L)...another interesting note...couldn't even find Full Pint malt on GW's website...what's going on?
     
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  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It is entirely up to you but I personally would not blindly trust anything that came out of your LHBS folks' mouths.

    Cheers!
     
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  11. zimm421

    zimm421 Initiate (0) Jan 24, 2009 Ohio

    I think I remember you mentioning in another thread that you're in/around Columbus. If you have city water, I can point you to someone who provided me with city water reports in the past (since we may be on different sources).

    What LHBS do you use. I go to Gentile's for my grain, but wouldn't trust a lot of the guys in there. I've been fed some awful advice in the past. Much better to know what you need and not change your plan based on what they say. Unfortunately, I think this is true for a lot of LHBS.
     
  12. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    Well shoot! Let's meetup! I use Buckeye Brewcraft up in westerville. I have been to Gentiles in a pinch, and the winemakers shop (I live in Clintonville) so both of those are pretty convenient. Please pass on any water reporting knowledge!
     
  13. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    Regarding cold break. I've done a lot of things over the years, from using whirlflock to using Irish moss to skipping both. I've had crystal clear beer skipping both, and hazy beer using whirlflock or irish moss, so I'm not willing to advocate any way as the "right" way. For an IPA, I wouldnt worry about it, since a bit of haze is acceptable for the style. I will add to make sure you use whirflock at 5 minutes left in the boil and not 15 like you would irish moss. The most important thing, imo more important than using a clarifying agent, for a hard cold break is to chill your wort fast.

    Regarding mash ph and 5.2 stabilizer, the truth is that most water will be acceptable to bring your mash within a ph needed for conversion, treated or not. Note that I am NOT saying that the water profile will be ideal for your style, just that you will likely have no issues with conversion. The issue with 5.2 stabilizer is not that it will harm your beer, it just that it is no more likely to get you into mash conversion range than skipping it. The mineral profile may in fact not be ideal for your style, and likely is less ideal than skipping it all together. I used 5.2 stabilizer blindly for years, until researching more in depth and finding out that it was not beneficial. I eventually bought a ph meter and can tell you for sure that it did not lock in a mash ph of 5.2 or really seem to do anything at all compared to the batches where i didn't use it.

    Outside of making sure there is no chlorine in your water, my advise would be to forget about water chemistry for your fist few batches and worry about process. I'll add that you should likely not brew hoppy beers for these batches, as your water profile will not be ideal. After you have an good grasp of your process, take a look at your brewing water, or look into building up from RO or distilled.
     
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  14. Hogue2112

    Hogue2112 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2016 Ohio

    As always, thanks for the info and insight!

    We do only have a 25' copper immersion chiller... which is not really satisfactory for this new pot. But it still didn't take too long to get it down in temp. What is an acceptable amount of time to cool quickly from say boil to 70 degrees?
     
  15. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    I'll defer on this one to others, as I dont use a chiller. My chilling method is unorthodox, I chill my 10 gall batches outside in half of a 55 gallon drum (cut in half) with constantly flowing well water. During the summer it usually takes me 30 minutes to bring my beer down to the low 60s, and my cold break is usually hard.
     
  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I respectfully disagree with that statement as regards to brewing lighter colored beers with tap water (and likely well water as well?). In a water presentation by Martin Brungard at a recent past NHC he made mention that most water in the US has high Alkalinity (and he presented a map; see link below). He emphasized that if you are brewing lighter colored beer with high Alkalinity water that some adjustments are necessary to acidify the mash. I homebrew with my tap water (filtered to remove chlorine/chloramine) and I add lactic acid to acidify my mash when brewing lighter colored beer so that I am in the proper pH range. I do not add lactic acid when brewing Stouts/Porters since the dark malts provide all of the acidification needed.

    https://water.usgs.gov/owq/alkus.pdf

    Cheers!
     
  17. scottakelly

    scottakelly Maven (1,487) May 9, 2007 Ohio

    I agree with very light beer styles, like pilsners, some water modification is likely necessary. Without getting into water chemistry, a novice would likely do best to dilute their source water with RO or distilled for these styles, or stay away from them all together until they are ready to venture into water chemistry and adjustment. I'm just trying to talk in generalities since the OP is just getting his feet wet with AG.
     
  18. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Me thinks the pixs show more than just normal cold break...expect a little more trub than normal...welcome aboard the all-grain trawler!
     
  19. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    The OPs grain bill:

    “Rahr 6 row - 4.25lb
    Briess Golden Promise 2 row - 15lb
    Crystal 40 - 12 ounces”

    That is a lighter colored beer IMO. If they used tap water to brew this beer they likely did not achieve a proper mash pH.

    Cheers!
     
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