Augustiner Weissbier Question

I have a feeling that you and @Stahlsturm would be good kumpels!

Cheers!

 

I remember reading that kegs of Weissbier should be stored upside down and then turned right side up just before being tapped. Is this the common practice or false information? I've had some examples of draft Weissbier where the yeast clearly had not been integrated with the bier. However, I would say the majority I've had has contained a good amount of yeast (which I prefer).

 

Bill Manley of Sierra Nevada posted about this: "Even for a beer like Kellerweis, which is quite hazy, the majority of the haze still comes from protein. We make sure kegs are shipped upside-down from us to the bar specifically so that when the keg is flipped for tapping the haze will cascade back down into the beer and give a more uniform appearance."

Cheers!

 

Not to hijack the thread, but all this talk about how Hefeweizens are served/poured got me thinking...

Has anyone ever seen/drank a Hefeweizen (or any wheat beer for that beer in which the yeast may be purposely poured into the beer) on cask?

I had Gueuze on cask in Brussels, but that's probably the most uncommon style for a cask that I've had.

 

Thanks for the info. I was at a local brewery recently where I suspected they had not done this with their hefeweizen kegs. I doubt they perform a decoction mash on this beer, which I'm sure attributed to its thin body, but it was lacking that fullness that the yeast provides and also had a slightly hazy appearance as opposed to cloudy.

 

Interesting thing about weisse in flaschen - .5L bottles have yeast but 12oz bottles don't seem to have; Franziskaner, Paulaner etc. Schneider flaschen have the heaviest load of yeast sludge that I've seen in bottles found in the US - they tend to sit on the shelf in my store as they are $5. Fresh bottles at the source aren't like that.

The locals request their bier in the flasche at Weisses and Huber. The Stammtisch tables all have bottles even though the tap is available.

 

The last six-pack of Franziskaner and the last mixed-12 pack of HB 11.2 oz. bottles (Weizen, Helles, and Dunkel) had yeast. Franziskaner has evenchanged its labels to specify: Naturtrüb.

According to their web site Schneider bottle-conditions, so that's where the extra probably comes from -- not just non-filtering.

 

@biermark, pardon my ignorance, but what's "in flaschen" or "in the flasche"?

 

Flasche = Bottles.

 

Not in Germany, but quite a few British breweries now make a cask hefeweizen. I wish they wouldn’t – I don’t think it works at all with the lower carbonation. And I am someone who would put pretty much any other style in a cask.

 

I think the closest thing to british casks in the german beer world is bayerischer Anstich.
I've had a lot of different styles served this way(Kölsch,Alt,Helles,Dunkles,Rauchbier,Kellerbier and so on and so on, even Pils)- but never Weizen. Don't ask me why, it just is not served this way.

 

But the beer isn't prepped and dosed by the beerhall or beer garden as cask conditioned Real Ale is by publicans, is it?

 

Well, depends.
Although it is not exactly the same, I'd say...basically,yes.
I mean think of the Bierkeller- those are not only there to keep the beer cool, in some of then, the beer still matures and lagers in the Keller itself. How is this different from the conditioning of casks and serving them when they are ready in UK pubs?
Plus, I mean just look at it: You have this thing at the top to let the barrel vent.


Somehow, it all seems very cask-like to me.
Or am I wrong?

 

At the brewery maybe, but in the bierhall itself? Pretty sure all of the "maturing" is done before it gets to where it's served -- but maybe not with all breweries?

As said; they're finished (lagered) at the brewery, kegged, and delivered to where they're served. Cask-conditioned ales are (traditionally) delivered to pubs while still "working" and the publican will keep his eye on the progress and may add touches of yeast or sugars as his palate sees fit until the beer is just right. At least -- that's how Real Ale used to be handled, not sure if the pubs and breweries are still paying that much attention.

If I were to point to one German process that would be close to traditional cask-conditioning I would pick the Zoigl traditions -- as fresh from the brewery as it can be.

 

Some breweries in franconia even sell "unfinished" beer in casks to costumers,and they finish the maturing process of the beer in their private Bierkeller...
Real "altering" with german beers like adding yeast or sugar in the Keller is not taking place, at least to my knowledge. But still I'd argue that sending "unfinished" Kellerbier (esp. Zoigl) to the pub for lagering and serving later is a common practice with some breweries.

 

Okay, so they just use the tavern's keller-space for the final weeks of laying down? Any idea what sort of instructions they give the serving location (or private customer) on how long to wait? Which actually seems rather daunting anyway -- I don't think I could put a keg of beer in my cellar and leave it alone!

 

Here is a video from Shelton Brothers which has some discussion about bunging & unbunging beer in casks; this specific discussion starts around the 5:30 mark.

Cheers!

 

The thing that stands out as different from the two processes is that the Germans don't slop around in the pubs with more yeast or sugar to get things right -- they already know the right steps before they send it to be dispensed.

 

Below is a description of the cellaring aspect for Real Ale via the CAMRA website:

“How long a beer needs to stand depends on the beer, particularly its alcoholic strength and how vigorously it ferments. Some modern beers have a weak fermentation and may clear within twenty four hours. That does not mean that these beers have conditioned sufficiently and to serve them as soon as they are clear is not necessarily to serve them at their best.

The cask is wedged on its side, to encourage the sediment to sink into the belly. Every cask has two plugs where instruments can be knocked into the cask by force. The cellar person knocks a small wooden peg into one. A hard wood peg seals the cask, a soft wood peg allows carbon dioxide to escape. By alternating hard and soft pegs as needed, the cellar person carefully controls the natural carbonation of the beer. Too high a carbonation and the beer will have a nasty bite, too little and the beer will be flat.

When the fermentation is about right, a tap is knocked into the cask at the other entry point. The cellar person will check that the beer is clear, has the right level of carbonation, and has lost the unpleasant flavours associated with beer that is too young. When the beer is ready to serve, the tap is connected to the dispense system. How long the beer lasts depends on its strength - stronger beers are more robust, and may last for weeks, weaker beers are normally drunk within a few days. This is why turnover is so important for quality - ideally the pub sells enough beer that you always drink it at its best.”

http://www.camra.org.uk/en_US/in-the-pub

Cheers!