Wyeast 1318

According to Chris White ("Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation"), "A high flocculator begins to clump in three to five days". Thus, the yeast that flocculate early may not be exactly typical of that yeast strain, but some variants. Much of the healthy yeast more reflective of the strain may still be in suspension after 12 hours (depending on the degree of flocculation for that type of yeast). By focusing on the early flocculators, you may be averaging the yeast strain that you are collecting to something that is not as typical of that strain. Sure, you'll still have plenty of yeast to work with, but the overall mix may not be as optimal as possible. The situation becomes worse for medium to low flocculating yeast.

 

You might be right. But the beer I poured off was really clear, and the yeast had formed a hard cake at the bottom. It seemed to ferment very well as well - starting in just 3 hours.

16 hours at 39-40 degrees is a pretty hard crash.

Yeah but that's at 70 degrees (fermenting), not 40 (in the fridge). For my 1.040 starter batches, it seems like primary fermentation is done in as little as 24 hours.

 

The 3-5 days he's talking about are not cold crash days, and not in a food free environment. There's a big difference between the yeast that flocculate out of a sugar rich wort and those that flocculate because there is no food, accelerated by cold.

 

Thus there's no need to wait 3-5 days when doing a yeast starter, but more like a day or two. But 12 hours seems quite minimal. Try decanting a medium flocculating yeast after 12 hours, save the decanted liquid, and let it settle for a few days. You'll see that there's still quite a bit of yeast left in suspension after 12 hours.

 

Thus there's no need to wait 3-5 days when doing a yeast starter, but more like a day or two. But 12 hours seems quite minimal. Try decanting a medium flocculating yeast after 12 hours, save the decanted liquid, and let it settle for a few days. You'll see that there's still quite a bit of yeast left in suspension after 12 hours. As for food, I always add yeast nutrient to my starters, and there's obviously also DME (although at a lower gravity), so that might be another reason why some starters take longer than others.

 

I don't disagree with anything here. I simply question your previous suggestion that the yeast still in suspension after an incomplete crash of a finished starter are somehow more healthy than the ones that have already flocculated.

 

As I mentioned, the yeast that flocculates long before the other yeast may not be typical of that strain (even though they are of the same strain, the flocculant nature of yeast has never been fully understood or perfected, so not every yeast cell will have the same flocculant nature). The flocculant nature of any strain of yeast is based on the "average" or "typical" flocculancy of that yeast. There will be some cells that flocculate much earlier than the typical length of time, and some that flocculate much later. So the "typical" cells reflect the more average situation. Collecting the earliest of the flocculant cells may result in a slight variation from the typical nature of that yeast strain. Thus what's in suspension a little longer may be a better reflection of the typical healthy yeast of that strain. I don't have a scientific study to back this up, but it seems logically evident (at least to me). Why gamble for the sake of saving a half day of time?

 

Next time I make a starter I'll put the sanitized vessel of the decanted liquid in the fridge and see how much more drops out after 3 more days in the fridge. I suspect I'm getting 95% of the yeast in my cake with my method. To be precise, I'm giving them usually about 44 hours to ferment and 16 hours to crash. Is it ideal? No, but it's working pretty well.

 

Remember to decant after 12 hours. And use a medium or low flocculating yeast. And let it settle for a week.

 

5 days on the stir plate seems a bit excessive...once the yeast has consumed all of the

Is there any harm in not decanting at all? I typically just pitch the entire starter without cold crashing at all...

 

This is true, particularly during the normal course of a fermentation.

Remove the word "healthy" there and you're golden.

There is a very good reason to fully crash a starter (or any yeast that will be re-used). It's to preserve the average flocculation characteristics of the strain. But there is no reason to think that the yeast still in suspension after an incomplete crash of a finished starter are somehow more healthy than the ones that have already flocculated.

 

If you like the taste of spent starter beer and feel it complements the main beer recipe you painstakingly crafted, there's no harm.

 

Point taken. Only on my 4th all grain batch but good thing I appreciate some good sarcasm.

 

Just wanted to make my point ahead of the "it doesn't make any difference" crowd, and skip to the end of the argument.

 

To me, optimal is "healthy". But not worth arguing about. So the word is removed.

 

That's how I prefer it. Not that it needs five days, but because it gives me lots of extra time in case other things come up.

As mentioned earlier, you don't need to decant at all. It just slightly changes the profile of your beer. I always decant. It also speeds up the time for the yeast to come to room temperature, and allows me to add some of my boiled and cooled wort later, prior to pitching. It's usually already foaming an inch or so by the time I pitch. Just gives it a bit of a headstart.

 

Why do you do this "headstart?"

I wouldn't recommend it. IMO, all it's likely to accomplish is stress the yeast by making them think they should just eat the little bit of wort you gave them (and not propagate), and then switch gears on them by dumping them into your main wort, where they will have to completely reassess their environment and go into propagation mode. When yeast experience a change in environment, their survival strategy changes.

If you want to get the yeast excited, just show them @Ilanko' s yeast ****.

 

{Munches popcorn}

 

I don't understand your logic. The yeast is only in the little bit of wort for a half hour to an hour, so there's still lots of food left for them when it's dumped in the main wort. It's not like there's a little snack for them - there's a lot of food so there's no "switching gears" and no real change in environment. They just keep on munching on the plentiful amount of food from the starter to the main wort.

 

It's a big change in environment. In the first one, they know there's not enough food and space to propagate, so they don't. They just eat. Then in the second one, there is enough food (and space) to propagate, so they do, before switching back to just eating once the cells reach some critical density (or run out of cell wall resources). IMO your 'headstart' is unnecessarily cycling the yeast, with no known benefit for the finished beer.