German craft beer

Somewhat related to German "craft," Stephan Michel is on the cover this month's BA magazine:
http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/beeradvocate-magazine-114-july-2016.431941
Seems he's able to experiment and still produce excellent beers while being shackled by the brutal Reinheitsgebot

 

Really? I've actually never heard of dampfbier. I've lived in Augsburg (for several years) and now Bamberg and spent quite a bit of time around Munich and never come across (either in a bar or a getränkemarkt) Alt or Dampfbier and only once I've seen Kölsch until the Bierothek (a "craft" beer store here in Bambi) came along. So maybe you can understand my viewpoint. Perhaps you live in a more enlightened part of the country.

 

Zwiesel makes a Dampfbier...and Maisel [Bayreuth] used to. I found the Maisel version in Bad Staffelstein -- just NNW of Bamberg -- back in the day.

 

I used to live in Bayreuth for quite some time... I really enjoyed Maisel's Dampfbier when it was still around in a few select pubs.
And Zwiesel's Dampfbier is from the wonderful bayerischer Wald, and is quite nice as well.
Kölsch was there in Bayreuth in a select few Getränkemärkte(mainly Sion Kölsch,oddly enough) and one(!) pub. We special ordered some crates of Gaffel for Karneval... Anyway, Diebels was basically in all bigger Getränkemärkte as well as bigger supermarkets.
But yeah I totally get your viewpoint, german beer culture is something highly fragmented, and oddly enough, the "craft trend" seems to be the only universal beer thing across the country.

 

That's the thing, do they have a lower perviedved quality outside of munich? I'd say Augustiner (among non-nerds) is pretty highly regarded, and you'll see Hell and Edelstoff in basically every Späti in Berlin.
I would argue that some "new nerds" look down on Augustiner, also because of the traditional styles they make. Helles,Dunkles,Export and Pils are simply "uncool" amongst "craft" enthusiasts, globally.

 

I'm not in there anymore, but yeah Augustiner hate (and Kölsch hate too) was pretty common there. But amongst "normal" people, it's different.

 

There is no universally accepted definition for “craft beer” in the US so I would suggest that it would not be realistic for this term to have a universally accepted term anywhere else.

Below is a linked article that was posted in a thread in the Beer Talk forum yesterday. From that article:

“Another way of defining craft beer is to compare craft beer to what it is not: “Big Beer” (or “MillCoorWeiser”), the beer produced by Anheuser-Busch InBev (ABI) and MillerCoors, the two major producers of malt beverages in the United States.”

I am under no illusion that the above definition would be universally accepted either since there will be folks who will state something like: Beer A is not brewed by a mega-brewery and that beer is not a craft beer. Having conceded that point, I am starting to think that by defining what are considered to be mainstream beers (AAL beers for the case of the US) and then referring to non-mainstream beers as being “craft beer” may be an easier method at trying to arrive at a more common agreement here. Or maybe not.

Cheers!

http://www.wine-economics.org/aawe/...mbers-and-Geography-by-Kenneth-G.-Elzinga.pdf

 

The Germans are nothing if not practical. More booze, more hops, more flavor(ings), and/or more money are as good a set of criteria to define "craft" as any I have seen.

 

How is this for irony!

We have been discussing the meaning of the term "craft beer" and I discovered this a few minutes ago: http://www.beeradvocate.com/mag/14085/the-meanings-of-craft-beer/

Maybe @EvanRail has the 'answer'?

Cheers!

 

I have had the Dampfbier in Zwiesel. The wife liked it, me, not so much.

 

Because some want an "easy enemy", and for many, Pils/Helles/Kölsch(depending on where they come from,off course) are easy to dismiss as "old boring beer" because they want something "new".
For me it is odd that they accept stuff like Grevensteiner Kellerbier or Warsteiner Braumeister because they are basically not only industrial products, but are "nothing new" at all, the trend of brewers in germany making suddenly unfiltered lagers is something from the 80ies and 90ies..
And with Kölsch, well aigan I find it very odd that they bash Kölsch so often, yet praise big american craft like Stone or Sierra Nevada.
(Alt, oddly enough,seems accepted there..)

 

P/H/K is the new BMC is the new-old 'fizzy yellow beer'

 

The thing is, when I was still living near cologne and started getting into belgian beers, I disliked Kölsch as well
It took some time and growing up for me to appreciate it again. Same with Helles and Pils

 

No, I'm sure I don't have the answer. But I have noticed that "craft beer" seems to mean "top fermented & hoppy" for many people in Europe (not just in Germany) nowadays, and as I wrote in the book, my own craft beer paradigm definitely includes quality lagers. When I cut my beer teeth in back northern California, lagers were a big part of the good beer scene.

In Germany, when I've told local beer lovers that a good Kellerbier is a craft beer for me, they have simply replied that I am wrong — that this is not what "craft beer" means.

For what it's worth, I think "craft" is losing its usefulness as a term. Back home, "local" is starting to be more important, "independent" and "indie" are starting to be more important, and as the word "craft" gets used up, it's losing some of its popularity. (And no, I'm not the first person to point this out, as I mentioned in the book.)

Germany got to "craft beer" — both as a term and as a concept — later than other countries. It's probably going to hold on to it longer as a result.

 

Lol. Nice answer.
The thing is, how many of those who said "No, good Kellerbier is not what craft means" even HAD a proper franconian ungespundetes Kellerbier, served by bayerischer Anstich?
I think that is my biggest gripe with "german craft", that a lot of people here have no idea what gems, what awesome beers lay hidden in the countryside, and instead they travel to overpriced craft beer festivals and drink murky ales with off-flavours.
Hooray.

 

Phew. I'm not the only one who noticed this

Craft doesn't mean "well-crafted" it seems. Perhaps then "craft" in Europe means new or at least not traditional.

 

Ok, so why do many german craft bars carry "traditional" belgian ales, why do belgian sours get attention in the craft scene, but classic german sour beers like Gose, Berliner Weisse or Lichtenhainer not so much?
As I've said many times:It's not so much about the beers themselves or how they taste, it is about image, about making a disctinction from the "older generation" and "boring old beer" by consuming hip, fresh,"innovative" american inspired beers with cool labels and english names in Tekus and beer somliere glasses. No matter if a proper traditional Rauchbock out of a Willibecher or mug can be ten times more intense and exiting....It's about image, doing something different, and setting oneselve apart from what is precieved as "traditional". Schlenkerla Eiche is my favorite example in such discussions, because it is a pretty modern beer...