German craft beer

The one and only sour beer I have had was a "Bohemian pilsner" from a small Swedish "craft brewery". A small brewery is definitely not a guarantee for quality, and if you couple being small with being new, then there is even less of a guarantee. I thus understand the terms craft beer to mean diversity and more choices, but the value of that diversity and choices is dependent on the quality of the end product (and also on the individual's taste obviously). When I look at the American craft beers being imported to Sweden (Sierra Nevada, Lagunitas, Ska, Oskar Blues etc.) I think that those beers deliver on both accounts, offering both new styles and high quality. To me that is the promise of craft beer, and those beers deliver on that promise in my opinion. The same is true for some of the new, small Swedish craft breweries.

Of course some would say that the styles of beer produced by these breweries are now old hat (i.e IPAs), and do not represent any real diversity (only hops). As to the first point I'll concede that the Swedish beer market is different compared to the American beer market, and whilst American styles might not be new in the sense of brand new, it's still a young style in a Swedish context, with plenty of growth ahead of it. As to the second point I would simply say that the simple addition of hoppy ales represent a net gain in diversity for the Swedish beer market and another alternative for beer drinkers.

 

This thread is hard work... Belgian sours ARE new. To Germany. I couldn't buy Duvel here 5 years ago. Now I can get most of the Belgian classics.. I think we may be discussing different things here Lurchus. You seem to be trying to define what craft beer should be and I'm describing how I think the average German beer drinker perceives it. I completely agree with you though that Schlenkerla Eiche should be considered "craft" more than say that Beck's Pale Ale nonsense. But marketing works..

 

Yeah but what I want to imply is, what the average german consumer percieves is kind of, well, off.
Belgian Sours are not "new". belgian is a neighbouring country, and when you come from the rhineland like I do,the next true lambic was always just a short ride away. But no one wanted them because of ignorance...
And that's my argument with "traditional", the "german" perspective of "traditional" is just still very narrow and close minded, and that's what I mean about percieved image. So, I like to ask the question:
Why is a Duvel, for instance, which comes from a big company and is aviable pretty much world wide, considered "craft" in a german context, but something like Päffgen Kölsch or a traditional Zoigl, which are made on small scale ond basically only aviable in their native region, are not? I think that comparison works well because both Kölsch and Zoigl got to their "modern" form just after WWII, just like Duvel, right?
(Sorry if that is hard work for you or anyoneone involved, I just, well, want to challenge some common concepts..)

 

Don't worry. It's fun too.
I'm totally on your side here. I think the term craft is just a marketing term which I rarely if ever use. And unfortunately I doubt many of the people whose concepts need challenging are reading this.
I wonder what it is like from the other perspective. Would your average Belgian beer drinker consider a Kölsch or a Rauchbier (if they can find it there) "craft"? Any Belgians here?

 

I think I already wrote something about the different attitude and beer culture between belgium and germany..
Here it is, though from a different context:

That doesn't really answer the question. But let me put it this way, foreign beers always had it difficult in belgium, no matter if from germany, the US or elsewhere, and I feel this is still mostly the case (compare this to the netherlands where youll find a lot of imports from the us).
Comparing beer cultures in europe is very interesting because they are vastly different and are also developing in vastly different directions, despite being very close to one another geographically...

 

As an American (who almost always tried to talk about beer in Germany), I interpreted the term "craft" as being borderline synonymous with "foreign styles" in Germany. It didn't always relate to size, quality, or anything else. It just meant that it was a beer that was atypical for the region. I suppose some of the throwback styles that Freigiest would also count, but I suppose they're atypical for the region these days, too. In most instances it was US-inspired, but obviously Euro styles like wits and stouts count, too.

 

Hundred of miles away geographically from the border with Germany, and even further culturally, but good beer drinkers around here seem to unanimously give Augustiner praise, especially the Edelstoff. It's a mainstay 'alla spina' in a number of places that serve 90% Italian "craft" of varying quality, and pretty much the only reason I still drink there.
There's a clamour for their oktoberfestbier every september as well.

 

ISO.

 

The funny thing for me with traditional bavarian breweries that now also make american inspired stuff, like Schönrahmer or Riegele, is for me:
Suddenly, a lot of people who usually won't touch traditional bavarian offerings because they are "boring" see the traditional offerings of the brewers who also make ales all of a sudden as awesome and regard them highly.
I never got that. Don't get me wrong, Schönrahmer and Riegele for instance don't make bad "classic" beers, but they are,for me lost in a sea of equally to mostly superior offerings in bavaria.

 

Cue talk of how Schoenramer must be truly great because it won awards...(the same way, say, Leinenkugel did with their "Koelsch").

 

Oh yeah, it is really frustrating when you are OUTSIDE of bavaria and some pubs with a craft-ish focus go to huge length to get Schönrahmer Pils on tap, for instance... And don't get that it's not really worth the effort and there are way superior pilsners out there...
"But......but in won an award!Its i germany's best pils!" Yeah,right...

 

Drinking and praising beer based on 'image' rather than taste. I thought 'craft' beer drinkers were all about taste/flavor?

 

I always thought craft was all about image and attitude and dismissing "old world" style traditional beers as "bland" and "boring"?

 

Its all good!

Cheers!

 

So finally we have our definition of "craft" beer!

 

...or based on online 'rankings'

 

Whalez bro!

 

I think the problem is that most people don't seek out for themselves what they like, but let judges, awards, critics and so on tell them what they like....It used to be a wine problem, but its becoming more and more a beer problem as well.