Wyeast 3724/WLP565 wow!

Sounds like the difference in how the wort looks through a narrow hose vs through/in a fermenter.

 

I need a better explanation than that jack.. Im no fool

 

You might be surprised to learn how often a similar question is asked, and that is the explanation. If your wort truly turned from light straw to red overnight, it wasn't because of any common issue. Maybe unsettled trub made it appear lighter at first, but "light straw?" I don't think so. Maybe cloudy whitish.

 

Is it the yeast going to work that is changing the color? If so, will it go back?

 

Yeast will change the color of the mixture, and when they drop out, their color contribution will be gone. But I am having trouble equating that with a Flanders Red color.

 

I've never had a stuck ferment with 3724 either - fantastic strain. Gradual temperature increase to as high as 80+ seems to keep it going. It really rocks on subsequent generations.

 

It seems like we can all come to the conclusion that 3724 can be fickle. I brewed a saison in august with an o.g. of 1.049, pitched at 78 and ramped up to 90 slowly for about 10 days and it took about 3 weeks to hit 1.003. A fairly long time for a small beer, but the end result was the best beer that I've brewed yet.

 

I don't think I can sign up for finicky. It's a slow fermenter, but knowing that going in, it does exactly what I expect when treated right. I think words like finicky and temperamental are misleading, perhaps unintentionally, but I know they have prevented some from using a great strain for their saisons. Oh well, semantics maybe.

 

Yeah maybe finicky/fickle is a bit misleading. I did my due diligence before deciding to use 3724 over 3711 so I knew what to expect, a fairly slow fermentation.

I certainly wouldn't want to discourage anyone from using this yeast, my saison exceeded my expectations and turned out to be my best beer thus far.

 

Below are just my personal definitions of words to describe 3724:

· Stuck: the fermentation stops completely ay a specific gravity above the expected final gravity (e.g., stops at 1,030 and will not continue)

· Stall: all signs of fermentation stop at a specific gravity greater than final gravity and after a period of time (e.g., 1-2 weeks) the fermentation starts up again to reach final gravity

· Slow: the fermentation continuously chugs away for a period of many weeks

I have used 3724 twice and the fermentation characteristics were consistent with the later 2 bullets above.

In one batch I started at 1.060 and that batch slowly chugged away at temperatures > 80°F for 5 weeks to reach a final gravity of 1.004.

The second batch started at 1.058 and after the first week I maintained a fermentation temperature of 90°F (in an attempt to hasten fermentation). Despite the heat applied the fermentation stalled at week 4. I measured the specific gravity at week 5 and it was 1.013. Signs of fermentation commenced and at week 8 the final gravity was 1.003 and I bottled.

Other folks may have a differing definition of finicky but there is no doubt in my mind that 3724 is a finicky yeast.

Cheers!

P.S. The 'good news' is that 3724 does produce a tasty Saison beer.

 

What was your batch size, amount and age of yeast pitched, and OG? And how did you oxygenate your wort?

 

I had already mentioned the OG: it was 1.058.

The Wyeast yeast pack was two weeks old (purchased at my LHBS). The yeast starter was 2 liters (periodically shaken).

The batch size was 5.25 gallons.

Plenty of healthy yeast was pitched! Even Mr. Malty would have been proud!!

Cheers!

 

Mr. Malty, or rather Jamil, would indeed have approved, or actually, would have said something a bit smaller would have been ideal i.e. 2L would have been a bit of an overpitch per the model. FWIW, BrewCipher (a different model) would have said 1.5 quarts. But it's hard to imagine that overpitching would cause a stall. I also find it hard to imagine that I am saying I think you may have overpitched.

If I understand what you said, you didn't take sequential gravity readings midstream, i.e. you "saw" fermentation signs (bubbling?) stop, took a reading that was higher than your expected FG, then took another reading after outward fermentation signs restarted and then stopped. If this is the case, how do you know that attenuation actually (temporarily) stopped in the middle?

 

As I posted previously: “Stall: all signs of fermentation stop at a specific gravity greater than final gravity and after a period of time (e.g., 1-2 weeks) the fermentation starts up again to reach final gravity.”

So, during the week 4-5 timeframe there was no signs of fermentation (i.e., no airlock activity). I then took a gravity reading at week 5 and to my dismay I got a reading of 1.013. I knew this was higher than the final gravity. Shortly after taking that specific gravity reading I noticed that fermentation kicked off again (i.e., airlock activity) so I waited another three weeks and bottled then.

It is very well known that 3724 is a fussy yeast that is capable of stalling. Below is a ‘warning’ from the Wyeast website:

“This strain is the classic farmhouse ale yeast. A traditional yeast that is spicy with complex aromatics, including bubble gum. It is very tart and dry on the palate with a mild fruitiness. Expect a crisp, mildly acidic finish that will benefit from elevated fermentation temperatures. This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 S.G. Fermentation will finish, given time and warm temperatures. Warm fermentation temperatures, at least 90°F (32°C), or the use of a secondary strain can accelerate attenuation.”

I will state one more time that Wyeast 3724 produces a tasty Saison yeast strain but it can indeed be a pain in the a$$ to deal with.

As regards the topic of “overpitching” it is entirely possible that I overpitched this batch but I did so since I had a prior knowledge that this strain can be finicky. Would have pitching less yeast mitigated the possibility of a stalled fermentation? I really, really do not think so.

In the future I will be using a different Saison yeast strain (e.g., ECY-08, WLP585, etc.). These yeast strains also produce excellent Saison beers with the benefit of short fermentations.

Cheers!

 

Will this beer finish out if it maintains a temperature of 70*? What should I expect for flavor?

 

I love 565 as a base yeast for all my saisons. I have never used it by itself though, and enjoy what brett brings with it when pitched together.

 

I suspect it eventually would. I have never used it that low throughout the fermentation before, but I believe HB42 has done it in the low 70's. My usual method with 3724 is to start at 68F or so and ramp up to 80F over the course of the first week, then hold at 80F until done.

 

The point I was getting around to making is that lack of bubbling does not necessarily mean stopped/stalled attenuation.

I don't think so either.

 

So I was going to buy a pack of this at the LHBS last night but one of the workers talked me out of it saying that the reason 3724 can take the high temps is because it's a blend of lacto, pedio, and sach. Has anyone heard that before? I was dead set on purchasing this but then he talked me into getting some 1388 instead. I had never heard of 3724 being a blend so can anyone confirm if there's any truth to that? Even on Wyeast's site it doesn't say anything about it being a blend. I'm starting to think I should have went with my first instinct and bought the 3724

 

Find a new LHBS because that one is full of stupid

3724 is just Saccharomyces, i.e. yeast. And from what I have read, it is a single type/strain of Sacc, so not even a blend. Definitely no lacto or pedio.