German craft beer

Why dont you scan the documents you have and post them as well?

 

@gavinbrooksbank
LOL. Is Olde English a brewery name? That's the only name I can recall from that stack.... Some poor soul had put that poor, maligned beverage of the people front and center. I'd wanted to take it off the stack. To defend it and say "No! Stop this! THIS does not belong here. This should be honored, not destroyed! It benefits communities. Truly, truly it does!" but it was too late, as the hammer had already fallen, and the voices were silenced. Such a travesty. Such injustice!

Man, you guys are ruthless! Are you a member of TOEDL (The Olde English Defenders League)? What names do you recall from that stack? (Helpful hint: If you make a random guess of a crappy industrial beer, there's a fair-to-middlin' chance it coulda been on there. Berlin Hipsters, sorry I don't think any of your beloved Sternie was on the stack.)

 

Point being, Greg, you stated: "For the record however, I have never bashed a brewery by name." But there they were, labels forward, poised to be bashed by the almighty "stone." Whether industrial "crap," or some old German favorite (pretty sure Jever was spotted in there), it was an attempt to make some point that you were going to "change the world," and you were picking names.

 

Whether a marketing stunt (or however you want to classify it) counts as "bashing", Idk.

There are even fewer cases according to the BverfG (the highest court Germany has) where expression of opinion can be counted as "abusive criticism" (so called "Schmähkritik") - which I'd count as bashing. Marketing is allowed to be over the top and and even - at times - misleading.

So I think that point of contention is very much open to interpretation. If this happened every other week I'd say "yeah, okay - this is dumb" but as a one time off? Eh.

 

haha, I like the sound of the TOEDL, although I must confess ive never tried olde English in my life! I must try and rectify that, we don't get it over here though. I think I recall Jever being in that stack as someone else has mentioned so I might have to form the JDL.

Glad you saw sense and left the sternie alone

Just out of curiosity, do you have a sort of rough definition of what you would consider a "crappy industrial beer"?

 

Ummmmmmm...... take this famous quote, which kind of started the whole debate around here:

Which also goes aiganst not bashing specific brands/breweries,doesn't it?

I would call it a high abv hop bomb compared to classic czech lagers and also typical german pilsners.
Come on, Pilsner Urquell has 4.4 abv and probably around 40 IBUs, so in that context claiming wussie is a "return to the norm" is just absurd.

 

So help me out a bit here, which specific brand/brewery was it?

 

Augustiner?

 

Thank you. That tells me what I was interested in finding out.

 

Very clearly Augustiner in both Munich and Salzburg. No mention of the obvious care and craft that goes into making those beers -- from the brewery's own maltings to the hyperlocal ingredient sourcing to the decoction mashing to the hand-made serving barrels hewn by local coopers -- much less the incredible balance the brewers achieve in such a subtle and delicate "style" as Munich Helles. Just a dismissive quip about them being repeatedly unfinishable and uninteresting. To me these remarks will always embody everything that is wrong with the U.S. "craft" attitude and "culture." But, hey...no need to make a big deal out of one guy's take on things, right?

 

Nope, but that statement, combined with a lot of others from different people, leaves a bitter taste in my mouth as well, which isn't coming from hops..

 

Hah. I see what you did there.

 

And it was even 2 completely different Augustiners, too - they aren't related.... haha...

 

Just wondering if any of you guys actually read my speech. If you knew what I said that day? Or if you're just choosing to focus on this one tempest-in-a-teapot thing? It's a sincere question without sarcasm or angst. I'm genuinely curious if any of you know, or care what the true message was that day. If you are, here you go...

http://www.stonebrewing.com/blog/venues/2014/greg-koch-announces-stone-brewing-co-berlin

To answer your question, that's in the eye of the beholder. My opinion matters not. Your opinion is all that matters.

 

Far far far too late for that. OMG. Some dude isn't a huge personal fan of a particular beer style. WE MUST DISCUSS THIS AND PICK IT APART, WHILE IGNORING ANY POSSIBLE POSITIVE THING HE'S DONE (and even if he had done something positive in his life or career, it is all undone by not wanting to finish that beer).

LOL. I think someone has too much time on their hands, and that someone must be me. I have a brewery and restaurant (with 50+ guest taps) to finish. I'm going to focus on that. Cheers!

 

I honestly could not care less if you are aren't ''a huge personal fan'' of Augustiner. And as I have said before, I have immense respect for the beers your company brews, so I am hardly ignoring what is essentially the most important thing -- the beer. Rather it seems to me that your attitude ignores all of the very real craft that goes into beers like Augustiner [either the Munich or the Salzburg ones] when you can only summon the type of feedback [uninteresting...unfinishable] that one might expect from someone who is only interested in the extreme and cartoonish -- not someone with your experience and a company owned and operated in the midst of the culture that reveres and created beers like Augustiner. Say it's just one guy's opinion that doesn't really count. But you, especially, have a unique and ready-made platform for speaking out about the craft of both German and U.S. beer. When you make statements like the one about Augustiner, it carries weight with those who need true education about the world's great beers and brewing cultures and how to respect them.

 

That's very far from bashing IMO. It's saying he found those beers uninteresting and unfinishable. I would probably say the same thing about 90% of all Pilsners I've tried - does that mean I disrespect brewers who brew Pilsner? (I actually really like Schönramer's Pilsner) I also really dislike Kölsch or certain iterations of Stout. I couldn't finish Ayinger's Celebrator on my own. I don't see how something like that indicates disrespecting the brewer and his craft.

I mean we can argue semantics here and whether what he said was appropriately phrased but beyond that? Maybe that's me just being a nitpicky law student but for me to call something "bashing" it would have to have clear intent and it would have to be more specific.

And if we're talking taste, there is absolutely no merit debating it. I mean, in the same vein I could argue that someone disrespects a whole swath of musicians for not thinking positively of a certain genre and that's just asinine.

Well yeah, but that context has to be noted. If you just say "high ABV hop bomb" I'm thinking more along the lines of FW's Double Jack or Evil Twin's Molotov Cocktail.

 

FWIW, just on general principles I would advise him not to do so. There are possible copyright violation issues involved. Also, the type of publication in which the articles appear is not notorious for ignoring such violations when/if it discovers them. However, he has already provided the references which do allow the original articles to be found.

@JackHorzempa

 

Hmm. Have only seen the one from Erlkoenig. Which others have you seen?