Water additions for hoppy IPA

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by peter831, Aug 12, 2016.

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  1. peter831

    peter831 Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2012 California

    I have looked over the Palmer/Kaminski Water book, seeing recommendations for IPA's and the suggested levels are all over the board .. like residual alkalinity from 30 to -30 and Cl from 0-100, S from 100-300

    my tap water (aquifer) has a pH of 7.8 - 8.3, CaCO3 230ppm, Cl 39 ppm and 71S, I had been using this and 50:50 RO water and acidifying with food grade phosphoric acid, about 1mm per gal of mash water. Makes okay beer, but not as favorable as I think it should be.

    My last batch of beer was bad, I used straight tap because my RO machine was broken, so now I am going to start with distilled water and make the necessary additions.

    I looked at some of the brewing software, but they want you to enter the desired levels, and they can then determine how much to add… but I am unsure of the desired levels,

    So, reading a few threads I saw simple additions like 1 tablespoon Calcium chloride and 1 tablespoon of calcium sulfate (gypsum) per 5 gal

    to another with 1.5 g calcium carbonate , 3 g Magnesium Sulfate, 6 g cal sulfate and 3g cal chloride for a 15 gal batch.

    How about the sparge water, do you worry about that or just get the right temp and pH?

    suggestions and options welcome, I want to brew this weekend

    peter
     
  2. deleted_user_1007501

    deleted_user_1007501 Initiate (0) Jun 30, 2015

    I'm surprised no veteran, well-versed home brewers have responded to this. However, I'm not one of them. Water is very important, but it doesn't have to be so exacting and precise. There is room for experimentation, trial and error, etc.

    I've brewed a really beautiful Citra APA using some f*ckin Gerbers mineral water for babies and CVS spring water and it tasted phenomenal. It's okay to go with your gut. More than likely you have a really solid idea of the chemical compositions and their effect in different stages of the brew process. Brewing is mostly chemistry, but it's also intuitive.

    Sorry for my filthy two cents, but the gamble of playing around with your instinctual water levels is always worth trying.
     
  3. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    Use a water calculator like EZ water or brewcipher. I use brewcipher for everything and it's free. Just search the homebrew Forums and you'll find a link.

    The malts used will determine the mash ph so you can't just make a blanket statement like use 1 tablespoon of x.

    If brewing a pale beer and using 100% distilled/RO you'll only need two or three additions. Calcium Chloride, Sulfate and lactic acid. Target a ph of 5.2 - 5.4. Do you have a ph meter? Are you checking it or just trusting the water calculator? If using just the calculator target 5.3/5.4 so it's a safe spot.

    For the most part there are two schools of thought for an IPA.
    1) have a much higher sulfate ratio to chloride, which will enhance the bitterness, in a pleasant way, and help the hops pop.
    2) the more "new school" way is having a higher chloride to sulfate ratio to give the beer a more round bitterness and softer mouthfeel like the "New England" IPA

    For option 1 I would shoot for
    Something like 150 ppm of sulfate to 50/75 ppm of chloride. You can go over 200 ppm on the sulfate too. I've gone as high as 250. For the softer mouthfeel shoot for something like 100ppm of chloride to 50ppm sulfate. If you're going to the full juicy New England style I would recommend 180ppm chloride to 100ppm sulfate.

    I use the salts to dial in my profile and then use lactic acid to hit my ph target. Also if using RO I recommend yeast nutrient for some zinc.

    I can't speak on the sparge water as I do full volume sparge so I treat all my water.
     
  4. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    I will say that water adjustments will make a good beer great but won't make a bad beer good.

    I recommend dialing in your processes and when you can brew good beer consistently then it's time to fine tune it with water adjustments.
     
  5. Supergenious

    Supergenious Maven (1,273) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    Don't add salts to your sparge water. Straight RO or distilled is perfect. Make flavor adjustments to your kettle.
     
  6. PortLargo

    PortLargo Pooh-Bah (1,831) Oct 19, 2012 Florida
    Pooh-Bah

    My suggestion is to ignore those dudes and use @VikeMan 's IPA water profile:
    Ca-115, Mg-0, Na-0, Cl-59, SO4-201, HCO3-0

    If ambitious have your local water tested, it might be suitable to just add salts to achieve your target.

    I use acid malt to adjust pH, but phosphorus or lactic acid should accomplish the same. Brewcipher or Brewers Friend (both free) will help with fine-tuning the pH. When my pH meter went kaput I never replaced as the software was getting me PDC most every time.
     
  7. peter831

    peter831 Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2012 California

    No worries, it was Friday, and I was brewing a day early so I just went with 50:50 split of my house water and distilled.

    I have looked at the brewing calculators, but unless I am missing something they don't set design parameters, only ask you to put in what you have, what you want and do the math for you.

    I did find some water profiles on a site, with a water calculator as well, but just one opinion is hard to go with,

    yes, I do have a pH meter, and while it may seem unlikely, I brew mostly IPA's and with my grain bill which changes a bit the rough estimate of my phosphoric acid addition has borne true to be in the 5.2 to 5.4 range. I cool the wort in precooled metal containers (small metal shot glasses) that cool the wort very quickly, I do swirl them in cold water and the pH meter has a temperature gauge.

    I will compare Vikemans IPA with what I found, I had looked for one of his, but I could not find one for a West Coast IPA, I think the only one I found was a Northeast IPA.

    I do have my water tested, but it changes seasonally, (I teach hydroponic/substrate food production with the same water and we test it regularly) so its not really worth it, I would rather start off with zip in my water (for beer or plants) and add what I want.


    Cheers

    peter
     
  8. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,559) Mar 28, 2009 California
    Pooh-Bah

    The water calculators I use you plug in your grain bill and water characteristics and if gives you the mash ph, I personally only focus on mash ph not kettle. Then I add my salt additions and it adjusts the mash ph and mineral content. Try bru'n water.
     
  9. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    H2O is the easy part...what's the rest of your recipe? :slight_smile:
     
    GetMeAnIPA likes this.
  10. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Initiate (0) May 29, 2011 Florida

    My philosophy:

    - Use RO water
    - Use acidulated malt or lactic/phosphoric acid to adjust mash pH to desired level. Mash.
    - Add salts directly to boil kettle when sparge is complete.
    - Focus on SO4:Cl ratio.
    - Higher ratio favors more west coast style IPA with bitterness and crispness, lower ratio favors more soft body New England style IPA.
    - Don't worry about adding bicarbonate, Mg, Na, Ca so much. You will get some Ca contribution from Gypsum and CaCl. Malt inherently contains varying levels of other minerals, so rdwhahb.

    Cheers!
     
    thatche2 likes this.
  11. peter831

    peter831 Initiate (0) Dec 2, 2012 California

    thank you all for the great responses, I had never thought of adjusting the boil kettle, figured it would be better to manage the water going in through the mash.

    Before the next batch I will immerse myself in one of those brewing software options, I do have BeerSmith but have never tried nor looked for the water bits

    peter
     
  12. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Maven (1,374) May 2, 2006 Utah

    MpH Water Calculator (which can be used to estimate mash pH) has a tab with suggested water profiles that have been gleaned from various sources.

    Cheer!
     
    corbmoster and GetMeAnIPA like this.
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