No Starter Competition Results Poll

You have awful high expectations of us Vike. I agree with Soonami on one point: I think that if any of us have the foresight to make a competition beer that we're going to make a starter for any beer that we brew. Were you hoping for more hail-Mary responses that started with a rushed brew day?

 

That's a very specific question. So my answer is no.

 

Frustrating but funny responses. Sorry they haven't much help in answering your question.

 

There may be some validity to this generalization, but a better answer is "it depends."
It depends on the characteristics your seek from your fermentation.

For many beers, a single pack of liquid yeast without a starter is consider underpitching. Underpitching risks results that many consider undesirable (low attentuation, production of compounds that many consider off-flavors). Different strains will responds differently to underpitching. If you find that underpitching a certain strain produces the characteristics you want in a beer, then that approach is right for you, even if most people wouldn't want to drink your beer.

Many will tell you that dry yeast is inferior to liquid yeast, but again, use the same yardstick - if it produces the beer the brewer wanted to make, it was the right choice. One of the inarguable downsides of dry yeast is there is not as much diversity. Another is that several of the strains produce flavors that people perceive as off. S-23 makes lagers that are a little fruity, S-05 has been cited as producing a slightly peachy flavor. If these are characters one wants in their product, than these are good yeasts. Some of us have won comps with dry yeast, so these characters are either not always present or not always undesirable (most likely both).

 

The only comp I've entered has been pretty informal, but I can say for sure that my beers have been much better since I've been making starters.

 

I use a lot of dry yeast in brewing, although mostly I make more assertive beers where the yeast character is less of a factor in contributing taste. When making a aggresively dry hopped APA, yeast contributions are pretty minimal as long as the fermentation is clean and complete. For imperial stouts, with heavy roasted barley, high bitterness, and big malt flavors I think it would be difficult to tell the difference between Safale US-05 and Wyeast 1056.

For beers like Belgian styles which are often yeast driven, I've always used liquid yeast and think that's the best option in terms of diversity and quality

 

Can you wash and reuse dry yeast in the same fashion that is done w/ liquid yeast?

 

I use dry yeast for those beer styles where dry yeast is compatible.

Just like Soonami I use dry yeast (US-05) for my aggressively hopped beers (American style IPAs for me). I also use dry yeast for beer styles that are malt forward. For example, I will shortly be brewing these beer styles:

· Oatmeal Stout: Coopers dry yeast
· Brown Ale augmented with Rye and Smoked Malt: S-04 dry yeast
· Gluten Free Porter (using Sorgham and Belgian Dark Candi Syrup): S-04 dry yeast

I have also used Danstar Windsor yeast many, many times to make my English Bitter Ales.

In my opinion the quality of dry yeast is comparable to liquid yeast. You just need to ensure that the given dry yeast strain is appropriate for the given beer style.

Cheers!

 

i think that the quality of the dry yeast these days is comparable to liquid...but here are two reasons I use liquid:
1) comparable strain not available in dry form
2) multi-generation use. Maybe dogma, but still trust liquid yeast if I'm going to be re-using a strain more than 2...maybe 3 times.

personally don't really buy into the comp stuff, i make the beer for myself & friends and not for the hardware. I've worked enough comps to know that my tastes are a better judge than in an unknown flight, at an unknown time of day. I know if it's good or if i missed the mark...and I always make a starter when using liquid yeast, and on rare occasions with dry yeast as well. I know the reports...but at the end of the day, consistency is a true skill in brewing and few factors are more important to produce consistent results than have your yeast pitching rate a known quantity.

 

I have, although it's cheap enough that it's not worth the time and trouble often. Usually I'll just brew a pale ale to grow enough healthy and certifiably good yeast for a high OG beer like maltier DIPAs, Barleywines or imperial stouts.

 

I won gold and ProAm with New Belgium at the GABF last year with an Oatmeal Stout using WLP002. Just dumped the vile in, no starter. When I first tried the beer it had a strong bubble gum taste. I figured the beer was flawed and the yeast was stressed during fermentation causing the off flavor but figured I'd enter the comp anyway. Put the same beer in another comp a month later and it didn't do so good. Go figure. This being said I've done a starter on every batch since.

 

Sorry it was BJCP sanctioned, forgot to mention that. 5.5 Gallons and OG was 1.062.

 

I didnt think GABF used BJCP. Is the Pro-am different?

 

It was a BJCP sanctioned comp that had 5 or 6 pro brewers picking from the winners to brew for the ProAm comp at the GABF. If that makes sense. So Grady Hull from New Belgium picked my beer from all the winners at the comp.

 

There's a BJCP home brew competition called Liquid Poets Slam here in Colorado. His oatmeal stout won gold medal in the stout category. There were professional brewers from 5 breweries at the competition. Each one of them chose their favorite beer out of all the gold medal winning beers. New Belgium picked his beer. So New Belgium took his recipe and brewed it on their system, and that beer went on to compete in the Pro-Am competition at Great American Beer Fest last year.
So he's saying that he won gold at the Liquid Poets competition with a 5-gallon 1.062 beer with a single vial of yeast.
Hope that clears it up.

 

Gotcha.

 

Looks like this competition with 11 entries in the flight and over 300 entries overall.

 

i'll try to state my thoughts another way...VikeMan, I think you're asking the wrong question. Can you produce an award winning/BOS beer without any starter with the details you laid out of the wort? I would say unequivocally YES, given all the research that has gone into pitching rates over the last couple years. With what we know about under-pitching and the fact that at times it can actually be a good thing for certain yeasts & styles, there is no doubt that pitching direct 100billion cells into a 5gal wort @15P can lead to award-winning beers, especially given that it really isn't under-pitching by much for a 15P beer.
The question though remains with liquid yeast, how much are you actually pitching because of shipping and all other factors considered. You don't know if you're pitching 5billion or 100billion live cells. Fact remains, making a starter and creating a quantifiable yeast pitch is the most precise and consistent way to brew your beer using liquid yeast.