Hoof Hearted

I don't know anything about brewing or how difficult it is to gain solid consistency, and I personally don't consider hazy (unfinished) IPAs a separate sub-style, but i think if what you say is true about how much more difficult these types of beers are to brew consistently then maybe Hoof isn't quite up to that challenge yet.

"Oh it's a much harder type of beer to brew right" isn't an excuse that should be allowed to fly, especially when nearly their entire catalog of product is exhibiting the same wild inconsistencies.

 

I mean hey if it's unfinished as you say I'd rather have Hoof's brews than overly refined, "finished" IPAs that are crystal clear amber and exhibiting almost exclusively full on pine and bitterness. Although that's a subjective angle. But this style of beer is certainly finished. I've had a 3 month old South of Eleven that didn't fall off at all from the release, and a 2 month old Artaic that was still as shockingly delicious and nearly identical to day its one self--yet I've had IPAs by legendary and classic breweries that drastically changed over half that time.

What we're seeing with this New England style IPA that's pretty much everywhere now is a certain level of freshness on these hops, in addition to lots of them, co-mingling with unique strains of yeast that help amplify and mimic the hop attributes. What's funny is some breweries like Jester King use aged hops, so they are already at a point where some would call it a futile task, but because of the Brett in their beers like Wytchmaker, the culture has a way of working with the hops to create and maintain a tropical hoppy aroma and flavor in a beer that could be 6 months or older.

I do want Hoof's all star beers to be more reliably similar batch to batch, but I don't want them to sacrifice the amazing flavor, and especially aroma, their beers feature by trying to get there. Tree House regulars frequently discuss batch variation, and even recently we heard some Ohioians talk about some differentiation with Hop Juju. Thing is, though, I don't see Bay Staters beating up on Tree House them like I see us doing. It's good to be critical, but at what point does constructive become destructive? Even Alchemist got jumped on for Heady losing its luster for a good few months or longer, and then somehow 'got back on track.' The only brewery I've seen consistently nail this style is Trillium and really I haven't had enough of their stuff over the long term to definitively say so, but I've heard nothing but good things about their process of ramping production up and keeping the quality at a high level.

I wonder if one other thing we're not considering this year is an unusual hop harvest with some breweries seeing late or light shipments of certain hops like Galaxy.

 

Man it's hilarious how you just want HH to be Tree House so hard. Every time people critique something about Hoof... "Tree House does it that way". Long live the hype!

 

When I say I've had HH beers that weren't "finished" I don't mean they just weren't "polished" I literally mean they weren't finished. I've had at least 2 from them that seemed like they weren't even done fermenting. The paint was still drying.

That's way worse than simply being dialed in, working with what curveballs the harvest gave them or whatever euphemistic excuse.

 

Oh I do? Thanks for the insight, considering I don't even like TH as much as Hoof. Not sure what you're personal beef with me is. I really like what Hoof is doing but do also feel there is room for improvement. I'm just trying to have a discussion, not at all trying to shut down opinions that differ from mine or even talk down about an Ohio brewery.

I've had a few that had quite a yeast bite to them, but it's been at least 6 months since then. More recent for you?

 

As recent as yesterday. I went to the taproom. Did We Just Become Best Friends was like drinking an IPA out of the fermenter with another week or so yet to go (I have some experience with this, I've had several big time central Ohio IPAs right from the fermenter as well as bright tank but I'd rather not say what brewery on the forums, you could guess fairly easily though). It was carbonated just fine but it did not dry out enough and had a porridge, fermentable sugars, grain thing in the aroma and flavor.

And the yeast bite thing you mention was very apparent in Dodging Invisible Rays, a Saison. It was good, but only in the fact that I like Saison yeast, because it was just Saison yeast in water.

 

Currently in Boston/Portland and in the past three days have already made it to about ten breweries, most doing a ton of IPA's of course...

Trillium
Jacks Abby
Lord HOBO
Allagash
Foundation
Bissel Brothers
Maine Beer Co
Austin Street
Smuttynose
Night Shift

Honestly, Hoof is as good or even better than many on the list. Trillium may be the one that is above/beyond though. Still have quite a few more stops this week, including Treehouse of course. Although I have had maybe a dozen of their beers already, so won't be anything really new.

Many are "yeast bitey" and harsh, thing s that many people like to complain about with hoof. I think lately Hoof really has gotten more patient and the canned releases have fixed a lot of issues in the past. The brewpub may be a different story, I feel like the quality is not the same there in my experience (been there three times).

On a side note, Hoof's collab with Austin Street was quite tasty.

 

Nice work man, enjoy! Trillium is my tops as well.

 

I disagree with your notion that HH is sacrificing flavor and aroma in their beer "trying to get there." We wouldn't even be having this discussion if they brewed their beer with consistency and right every time. Saying this is a style (no it's not) that can afford inconsistency is flat out wrong. The IPA style whether you bastardize it and call it something else (New England style or whatever) make no difference. At the end of the day you are only as good as your product. And they don't make it right. No matter how good you think the different batches are.

Just ask Coke or Pepsi about what consumers think about a different product from batch to batch. Yeah, it's pretty important.

 

I wouldn't even mind batch variation if it was good each time. Just look at CBC. Back in 09 or so Bodhi and Creeper were quite different from where they are now. But CBC has had a definite goal in mind with each beer and the changes each recipe has undergone seem to have been aimed at that goal. And each noticeable stage in both of those beers' development have been very good nonetheless.

There's batch variation that's an outcome of skilled, calculated brewing then there's the type of batch variation we see in lesser [newer] breweries.

 

It boggles my mind how much people argue about HH. It's a local business making some good beer. It's not all great but they have some gems. All breweries are like this. There is no reason to shit talk a local business that's simply making beer the way they want to make it. If you don't like hazy or "unfinished" IPAs then don't drink them and stop posting in a thread dedicated to news and updates about HH. It's pretty simple. Not every beer from every brewery is going to satisfy everyone. Drink what you like and pass on what you don't. This thread is nonstop beating a dead horse.

 

They should change their name to Dead Horse.

 

Or brew a new DIPA called "Are We There Yet?"

 

I get it though guys. Some of you really like their beer, and I hope its for the right reasons, not because it'll land you some Trillium or whatever. And if you like it for the right reasons then good. I wish I could, that's why I still visit their beers every once in a while.

Its just sad for me to see so many people claiming that all this flawed beer is OK and even desirable. I'm just slightly worried this beast will get more widespread.
I mean I'm shocked to see no one here even has anything to say about that picture of several cans of their beer exploding.

'Just keep it in the fridge until you're ready to ship it to New England Lol'.

 

Coke and Pepsi also use extremely controlled ingredients, many of which are synthetic I'm sure.

Remember, beer is made with water, yeast, hops and malt. We all know this. Remember though that hops can vary with each harvest, as can malt. Yeast being a living organism can also work slightly differently even if using the same one. Many variables that are tough to control. Huge breweries can control better, yes, but for smaller breweries that is extremely expensive.

I for one like the variation that occurs with these "live" products. I even get it in beers such as Fat Head's Head Hunter which can taste quite different batch to batch. It's not just Hoof and other "NE IPA" breweries.

I know for a fact at Hoof when they rebrewed an identical beer, with no changes, the appearance was drastically different because the yeast behaved differently from the batch prior. While everybody blamed a change of recipe, it was just what that lot of yeast did in the beer. Dropped clear vs. lack of floccuation.

In the end, it's just beer. Enjoy it, or not.

 

Oh so close with the Are We Having Fun Yet? name.

I heard a story from Jester King that they brewed one large batch, then had it sit in 3 separate tanks, and the same yeast was in all three, but they all behaved differently and produced varied results. All from the same brew day. They also see the performance of the yeast vary season to season.

I won't even touch the soft drink comparison--but being able to produce Bud Lite on a massive scale is quite an accomplishment, but not one that I enjoy.

I think whether New England IPA is a style is best left for another thread but I am firmly in the camp that it most certainly is its own style.

I don't really think it's for you to say that Hoof doesn't make their beer right. You can choose not to buy it, but the finished product is ultimately what they intend it to be. I've experienced some oddities at the brewpub like @Cbusssted, but I haven't had any actual cans that were off in over 6 months, aside from one or two canned batches that were more or less intense than their previous iterations.

Consistency is an issue that needs worked on, but all I mean to say is that I want them to be cautious, and I don't want them to achieve it at the detriment of the things that already make their beers great.

I've never had a Hoof beer explode on me, and I've had a few for up to 3-4 months. I've never had any other beer explode on me for that matter, and I've had a few that were actually infected to a great degree. I've had a couple of gushers, but that's after opening. I've known people to have their beers explode on them, and in almost every case they were sitting in a car, or a garage, or some other less than optimal place.

If Hoof's beer isn't even desirable to you, I really don't understand why you follow this thread. To make it as real as possible, for me personally, my IPA "desirability" list goes like this:

1. Trillium
2. Hoof Hearted
3. Hill Farmstead
4. Tired Hands

Hoof is downright delicious to me, and quite a few other people too, for them to consistently have the crowds they do. Not everyone is trading all their beer, but this culture is the new normal across the country right now. If people were shitting all over the Jackie O's thread, there would be an all out war. There have been a few accusations of infected BB beers over the past month, and not a soul has even uttered the hint of requesting or demanding refunds. I'm glad we've managed to keep this civil, but this is definitely getting ridiculous.

They have consistency issues, yes. And it seems the brewpub is still putting out too-young beers on draft. But it really goes no further than that.

 

Dude, in one post you say that Hoof's beers are released and have the outcome that the brewers intended, then say they have a consistency issue that needs worked on.

I highly doubt they intended for their cans to explode.

 

Both can be true, and they are, in my opinion.

And of course they didn't intend for their cans to explode. Are anyone else's cans exploding out there besides this one single social media post?

 

Whoa, a tiny young brewery doesn't produce product with the consistency of Coke or Pepsi? Absolutely unacceptable! We should definitely stop supporting them even if we like their inconsistent beers.

 

You guys are funny. My Coke or Pepsi reference was aimed at consumer preferences. Not comparing how you make a soft drink to brewing beer. When you establish a brand consumers have certain expectations with that product or service. Pretty clear what most expectations are for this brewery.

I follow this thread because I can. I hope they start making consistent product and I may buy it again. Yes, I also detect differences between Fat Heads or other local breweries as well. Hops that were available were used instead of another based on availability, or some other reason. That's fine. Releasing something that doesn't even remotely resemble the last iteration is a problem.

I like this brewery. I've enjoyed some of their beers. I think I have higher expectations than most. I'm ok with that.