American Breweries and Traditional Styles

It really is not always the best example of a style sometimes that makes the biggest impression. If your first and only experience is with a style is not with a more authentic, a less changeable approach , then you did not really try the style yet. Abv and hops are the main places we quibble these things and hops and abv absolutely change the drinkablility of a beer. I am not just greedy like I want as much as I can have although that is true, I like the flavors. A lager and an IPA are big differences. So an Oktoberfest cannot have the features of an IPA or it is not the same style that we are talking about.

 

Yeah, I see where the op is coming from, but I'm not sure that traditional is the word I'd use either.

There is also the implicit subtext within that there is a conflict between the old and new, which there isn't. It's more about seeing the whole picture with as much context and understanding as possible.

At the moment I can't come up with a better one, though.

 

Dynamic? Evolving? Changing?

(As in "When does change become transformative rather than just different?)

But I'm not sure a single word will suffice.

Also, for some reason I keep thinking of an intro line used by one of the announcers on the Philly classical radio station, "All music was once new."

 

And a damned good one every single time.

 

An American take on a "traditional" European style does not half to be a clone of that style. Sierra Nevada Nooner is called a German Pilsner and is an excellent brew. IMO it tastes different than any German Pilsner but still tastes like a Pilsner. The same thing is true of most good American Pilsners.

 

It actually works two ways. The way you say happens often, and you hear about it. What happens, however, when someone tries the beer that really isn't to style, hates it, and decides they don't like that style?

To be honest, I dislike categorizing by style. It puts brewer's in a box to some extent. The beer description is more useful than a style, assuming the characteristics are described. Unfortunately, people love categories so I don't see that changing soon.

 

Its America. For some reason people feel the need for bigger and better. Lol.

Seriously though some people just love hops and booze and will throw it in everything they can.

On your Oktoberfest argument, flying dog makes some crazy and ridiculous beers ie; mint julep, carolina reaper, etc.....but their Oktoberfest is very traditional. A lot darker than youd think but its very classic.

 

:-)

You and I seem to have survived reasonably well.

 

Sierra Nevada should do German beer 12 pack. Nooner, Vienna Lager, Kolsch and Kellerweis

 

But you see that just avoids the problem that really concerns me when talking about "traditional." Who made up those requisite guidelines, when and why? When did they become fixed in time and who decided that was the "correct" time? Couldn't the development of those styles also be considered a bastardization of the styles that preceeded them?

Take the example of the German style Pilsner. When did it stop being a bastardization of the original style from which it deviated and become a traditional style? There are reasons to believe it has undergone changes over time. Similarly, when did the first Pilsner, brewed in Pilzen stop being a bastardization of the styles that preceded it and become traditional? There are reasons to believe that the clarity of the liquid which began with that Pilsner has become so important to many styles wasn't a big issue until the early Pilsners appeared on the scene (at about the same time glassware became an affordable luxury). When and why did clarity stop being a bastardization and become part of a "traditional" style definition?

 

The wife had a German Pilsner today with Mandarina Bavaria hops.mit was not like any other German a Pilsner we have had. It was very nice and crisp. We were in Traunstein in Bavaria. Mind blown?

 

It will be interesting to see if the conversation can be more nuanced in this respect but I would be surprised.

The BA community (and the RateBeer community and the xyz community and the...) are comprised of a large set of folks who do indeed not rate to style. This is the reason there are no AAL beers that are very highly rated (the highest value is 3.55). As long as this is the case then there will be beers that you (and others) may regard as not truly to style which are highly rated within that style simply because beer drinkers like those beers. IMO this has always been the case on BA (and other sites) and will continue to be the case in the future.

The craft beer community is extremely dynamic and I do not see that changing anytime soon (or ever).

It is what it is.

Cheers!

 

Nope. The beer community is evolving the whole world over. Germany may be bit more slow moving in this regard but as the old saying goes: “The only constant is change”.

Cheers!

 

I think that this site needs to add a few styles to alleviate some severe discrepancies between highly-hopped and high alcohol versions of more traditional styles. For example, we need imperial red, imperial pumpkin , American Oktoberfest at least.

That said, a few more style categories won't eliminate the problem.

I suggest that using the forums helps a great deal. Start a simple post asking for recommendations of beers that fit a specific style. Maybe one could even specify "no hop bombs" or some such.