Saison with WY3031 Sacch/Brett blend

Welcome to the forum and a hello from a fellow SC homebrewer!

This is a limited release blend from Wyeast, so you might only find a few folks that have experience with it since it just came out this summer. I've used White Labs 670 several times and get a good Brett character by ramping up the fermentation temp into the 80's/90's. Similar to Wicked Weed and HF saisons IMO, but many folks feel that it doesnt throw enough Brett character (but I dont think they raise the heat to stress the brett enough to produce enough of its character). I have recently switched my brett saison house yeast/bug mix to a combination of wild yeast and Brett I picked up from Carolina Baeurnaus in Anderson SC, which has made 3 incredible saisons in the past 9 months or so.

 

Maybe Drew (@drewbage) has some experience with 3031?

Cheers!

 

I haven't used it yet for two reasons - one I'm saving the Brett strains for last in my Saison Guide and two I'm not usually a fan of how homebrewed Saisons with Brett end up tasting. Most of them end up being BRETT beers with a Saison note and not a Saison with Brett notes.

 

That's why I like them though....IMO, Saisons are one of the best styles to use Brett with! After brewing too many Saisons/farmhouse beers over the years, I'm back in love with the style because of Brett

 

I want to get involved with Brett, but I am a little scared of it. Haha.

 

I keep all of my brett, lacto and wild yeast beers and equipment separate (in a different room and floor of the house) from my clean beers just to be safe. It's not that big of a scare if you are consistent with proper sanitation protocol.

 

I keep it there the whole time. After I brew, I put the fermenter in an un-heated/cooled spare room where it gets HOT in the summer and COLD in the winter...all of my wild/brett/sours do much better in the summer compared to any other time of the year in this situation. In my experience, the more you treat Brett bad, the funkier it gets. So low pitch count and high temp tend to make those beers more "bretty" IMO.

 

They are, but I think I can count on one hand how many times I've had a homebrewed Saison with Brett that wasn't just a Brett beer. Many of them very messy Brett beers that it feels like someone just went "chuck in some brett and call it a Belgian".

That's not to say it can't be done or that there isn't a place for Brett bombs - they're just not my cuppa.

 

Drew, do you have any idea how the Brett was used in those beers? For example was it brewed via a co-pitch akin to using 3031? Or did the brewers first pitch with a Saison yeast strain and then at a later time (e.g., with a few points of SG remaining) pitch the Brett? I would also think that which Brett strain was used (e.g., Brett A,B,C,...) would make a difference.

Have you (and Denny) ever considered this for a beer experiment?

Cheers!

 

I have a Brett Saison pipeline where I keg and brew on the same day, that way I can reuse the cake in the fermenter for several generations...so I can't tell you exactly how long it takes for mine to hit FG. I keg a new Brett Saison every 3 months or so and the beers are always at FG and aged well. Before I started the pipeline though, I brewed several that were ready to drink in a month. I would venture to say that it'll take the same time, or a little longer, as a normal Saison to hit FG, but Brett likes to chew up and metabolize all sorts of compounds/molecules, especially after normal fermentation, to produce the barnyard funk. And I say let it ride without the wrap first go , just to see if that room's temp will produce good Brett beer

 

I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think most of them were post pitches which wouldn't be surprising since Brett is legendarily supposed to throw more "brett" characters when not used as a primary fermentation agent.

We haven't done it yet but it is in the mix for the show!

 

Maybe a co-pitch (e.g., 3031) will yield a beer that is mostly Saison with some Brett qualities?

Cheers!

 

Yeah, I think you're right, a co-pitch would probably be best.

 

I have used 3031 a ton over the past year. I went ~7 generations with it and the brett tends toward the tropical side. I usually use a simple saison grist consisting of mostly pilsner, and a little wheat/vienna/munich/rye or combo of those, 80/20 is a decent number to shoot for. I typically mash 148-150 and this blend will take it down to 1.000 in about 5-6 weeks. I've found that it really loves the new-school fruity hops. I've used cascade, citra, galaxy, equinox, otto supreme, nelson and it's hard to discern the brett character from the character of the hops. 3031 is easily my favorite blend. Don't be afraid to keep it around and pitch future generations. It just gets better and better!

 

You did not perceive any funk (e.g., barnyard) in any of your beers?

Did you notice any changes in yeast derived flavors over the multiple generations?

Cheers!

 

The first generation was more classic saison (spice, fruit) and tropical brett notes (passion fruit, lychee). At about 4 months a little barnyard funk appeared underneath. I have a couple bottles left that are 16 months old. Last one I had was definitely more towards the barnyard but not in an offensive way. This blend seems to creates a very nice balance.

With future generations, I wanted to play off the tropical brett notes by adding fruity hops. It's hard to say exactly where the hops end and brett starts but I will say I noticed brett character much quicker (6-8 weeks). By the 3 month mark a noticeable barnyard undertone was present. I am working on my 7th generation currently (doing a side by side with a fresh pitch of 3031) and there is a noticeable funk in the 7th generation pitch after two weeks in primary.

If you are bottle conditioning I would also recommend pitching some fresh sacch (I used champagne yeast) after the 2nd generation because the brett in this blend creates THP (mousey, cheerios) in the presence of simple sugars. That goes away with conditioning (dissipated in ~6 weeks) so if you plan on bottle conditioning for a long time, you could probably skip that step.