Jackie O's (2018)

They aren't?! Sure could've fooled me!

I understand not expecting adjuncts to hold up. Aging beers like that is just asking for a product that is less than what the brewer intended. But since when are barrel aged beers not great candidates for aging?! I'd argue that I've had many where they are too harsh when fresh and age really brings them out. Such as the big Bruery stouts.

 

The only issue I've had from Jackie O's with aging is the rum barrel oil of Aphrodite. That seemed to have a lot of problems. Not sure of the year but it was a 375ml. And even then I bought it out of a bottle shop after at least a year of aging, so it could have been the bottle shop's fault. Who knows? Everything else has been great. Just stating my experience. YMMV.

 

Beers that have spent time in barrels have always, since day one, been a minefield when it comes to aging. The sourness, over carbonation, under carbonation, and other problems are usually not apparent upon bottling or even within a reasonable window of "freshness". Barrels can not be cleaned or disinfected so beers that are not pasteurized after the time in the barrels will always be a huge risk when it comes to aging.

But don't take my experience and years and years of examples, figure it out for yourself hundreds of dollars later.

 

What?! Barrel-aged beers AREN'T meant for aging? Haha ok man. It's too bad I've had so many barrel-aged beers with 2-5 years of age on them that were less harsh (i.e. boozy) and more nuanced and complex than they were fresh. Other than adjuncts falling off (coffee, vanilla, spices, etc.) what exact peril would you or the beer be in? I've also never had a beer become infected with age, but I've sure had beers that were infected regardless of age. So people who have bought barrel-aged beers and cellared them (properly) deserved sour/infected beers? Hmmmm.

 

The same conditions that are going to allow the beer to develop are enough to allow any bugs that have been introduced by the barrels to do their thing and ruin the beer. Age does not cause infection nor does how the beer is aged.

The infection is present at the time of bottling but only becomes apparent with time. Its amazing to me how few of you know this

You ask me what peril the beer would be in. Have you not read this thread for the past 2 or 3 pages?

 

How many of these infected Jackie O's beers have been all steel (not barrel aged)? How many of them have been opened in less than 6 months of their bottling?

 

I just chalk it up to things happen I'll still buy Jackie O's beers just a heads up for others that might want to know there is a chance their.beer could be infected

 

You have really been throwing out some superb nuggets of wisdom lately. "Barrel aged beers aren't meant for aging." Do you hear yourself? That's one of the most hilariously uninformed and downright incorrect statements I have ever seen on BA.

So...what you're saying is, everyone that ever buys any kind of barrel aged beer should assume it will have a 100% chance of infection and they're an idiot for not drinking it within, what, a month? Then, why has Goose Island, and numerous other breweries (including Jackie O's), accepted responsibility for compensating consumers for experiencing unintended, off flavors? BCBCS wasn't even old enough to be considered cellared by the time people started detecting off flavors ffs.

Simply put, breweries themselves completely disagree with you. I'll assume you've never actually seen a BCBS, because the originators of the barrel aged stout phenomenon advertise right on the actual label of the beer that the consumer can safely age their beers in the bottle for up to five years. Even a number of Jackie O's labels state you can "feel free" to "age longer in your cellar." Not to mention, these beer are already aged products--in other words, by the time it gets into the hands of the consumer, it is not "fresh," in the least bit.

Normally, infection is detected long before bottling, but if it's not, breweries simply do not want their consumers to experience off flavors 3 months, or even a year, after bottling, if ever. A year really isn't even that long when you're buying a rare release in quantity that's 10% ABV or higher--which describes most consumer experiences of rare BA releases.

If certain people are reporting infection, and Jackie O's is performing proper, respectable customer service, (which from what I hear they have been), I don't see the point in attacking everyone that has made the reasonable assumption that they don't have to guzzle all of their barrel aged beer instantaneously upon purchase.

 

Dude, you totally aren't getting what I'm saying.

Where did I say its the breweries' fault? Where did I say you shouldn't buy a Jackie O's beer or any barrel aged beer for that matter?

Where did I say all barrel aged beers are infected 100% of the time? Where did I say the beer should be drank within only one month?

And to really answer you question; breweries quickly take action to compensate people for any bottles that exhibit off flavors because the brewers know just how likely it is that barreled beer will develop these issues. So I don't understand where you think you're arguing against me here.

I've had a lot of BCBS and variants of that. Same does for Jackie O's. But this is not a dick waving contest and that's not the point of this. But another point I'd like to make is that a lot of these beers I hear people cellaring (which shouldn't be cellared) are most likely bottles people only have maybe 2 or 3 bottles of. In some cases they have no idea when, if ever it will be bottled again. If you're aging stuff that's not a tried and true cellar gem then you assume the risks of experimentation.

But keep rolling the dice with your $20 beers, just don't be surprised if the beer turns out bad.
I put those dice away sometime around the '09 Abyss problem.

 

Here is some insight into how I make stouts and why aging them isn't always the suggested route. This was a response to a BBVCDA oxidation email.


Little insight in to BBVCDA, might explain the change in character that you have noticed in the bottle. This beer is actually probably 13-13.5% lots of big alcohol notes that tend to have a dark sweet berry note. Woodford barrels, majority of our barrel program, contribute some big fruity cherry notes. Our stouts attenuate very well finishing at 4 plato or 1.016. Most big stouts of this stature on the market finish twice as high at 8 plato or 1.032. So body is thinner, and tannin/oxidation/booze are more apparent due to the lack of residual sugar in the stout. I brew them this way so they are drinkable and can be easily consumed by 1 or 2 people. The whole "amazing beer but can only drink a few ounces" doesn't sit well with me. This may be the reason that our beers are best consumed fresher than aged. Aging doesn't guarantee that the beer is going to get better, it will with out a doubt change, but the chances of it improving is slim. I too have noticed a fruitier shift in my bottles and that is just age, oxidation, and the character evolving with time.

 

I also find it interesting that instead of emailing the brewery and getting a well thought out response with lots of lab/beer/process info. Most people post on here, Facebook or some other public platform. Then arguments start, everyone gets worked up, "infection" chatter starts, and we all waste time reading, responding, or thinking about it. Email the fucking brewery! We will take care of it. Stop drinking in front of your computer!

 

I love this guy!!!

 

This thread gets too serious. Guys. It's beer. You are suppose to get drunk and enjoy yourself and release from the troubles of life if but for a bit. You can't even joke around on this forum or poke fun without someone getting completely butthurt and the group dividing into a 50/50 arguement.

I know I've responded with snark and been in an arguement or two on here but I can say with 100% certainty that if anyone of you came to my home and sat down we would enjoy ourselves over a beer or two. Most of the "arguements" are over personal opinion.

Aging beer can be a fun thing to try. There are risks we assume in doing this sure. A heads up that certain batches are turning is a nice heads up but a slippery slope between blaming the brewery for a product we created over time.

The great thing about jackie os is they constantly release barrel aged product so there really is no reason to buy a huge amount that will last longer than 6 months as within that 6 months more barrel aged product will be released to satisfy the need.

Beer trading is where this really becomes an issue but if you can let go of the concept and focus on the local brews that are plentiful that won't be a factor. So you won't need 3 cases of black maple to trade for the other beers across the country you don't have access to. That is easier said that done but it is a solution.

With the alcohol limit raised on beers things like bcbs will hit market and local breweries will expand on the opportunity filling the gaps left from the previous 12% limit.

I'm really pumped that I can shop maybe once a month for fresh hops and pick up limited stuff as it is released without printing a shipping label.

 

Not to get too far off topic here, but I'm with you. With the ABV limit gone there isn't going to be as much stuff I want to trade for because we'll be able to get it. So we get to enjoy awesome IPAs locally and badass barrel-aged Stouts and Sours too.

 

Look, guys, I'm proud of everyone here for not taking up pitchforks against Jackie O's for these beers with unexpected flavors, and I absolutely have no problem with notifiying the public about the current situation with any given beer.

But I hope you all can see my point, given the perfect and technical insight provide by Brad himself.

Age beers. By all means. Just do it intelligently. I hate seeing breweries take the brunt of a shit storm that is only the consumer's fault.

Also, thank you Brad

 

Some good points. Trading out of Ohio became obsolete years ago. We have some really seriously good shelf distribution. But trading is an entirely different argument for you all to have with me.

 

For every example people can cite about an amazing experience they've had aging a BA stout, someone else can cite a shitty experience they've had with another one. I prefer my non-sour beers fresh to 6 months of age with a few exceptions. Realizing years ago how much money I wasted sitting on stuff too long will change one's thought process, for sure.

 

There's just a whole lot of people here who haven't had that though process change. I'm not entirely sure why I wanna help them when they just get all combative. I think I'm mostly just helping a few breweries from having uninformed noobs as customers.

 

Well that was fun back to beer who is ready for this year's bbbm and champion ground release? Last year's release was really smooth had time to drink my fill and grab bottles hope this year is more of the same

 

You seem like a good dude and I agree with your opinion, but an opinion is all you're stating. When you equate that with "helping" others, it can come across as smug (especially when using terms like "uninformed noobs" to describe the people who don't agree with your opinion). I know tone is a tough thing to convey in a text only format, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here. But if people feel like you're talking down to them, they might get combative.