Toppling Goliath in Chicago (2018)

I hate the breweries that still use a Julian code for displaying the hop type, almost impossible to tell which hop is in there..

 

I guess I'm in the minority here, but for my palate, TG is doing better hoppy stuff than anyone in Chicago, including Mikerphone. They're much closer to the NE profile than anyone trying for it in Chicago. Sure, the FL stuff isn't all that great (it can be decent), but the IA bombers are amazing beers. Sosus, ZeeLander, Pseudo, Hopsmack, and of course King Sue are all amazing beers that easily trump anything from samey high ABV Pipeworks stuff (still tasty), overly bitter Half Acre stuff (except Navaja, which is amazing), and Mikerphone with the too-batch-dependent beers and sometimes odd off flavors (Mad Flavor b2). Spiteful is worth mentioning but sits firmly with PW in being too alcoholic and having generally the same flavor profile across the board (though their cans, like PW are great, just not on TG levels).

To me, Maplewood, Hailstorm, and the rest aren't even good enough to mention. Maplewood is outright bad, and their NE IPAs were laughable, and Hailstorm's Clouds are solid, but having them once was enough since they're really just not dialed in to the flavor profile they're trying to mimic (I've had a lot of Trillium, Tree House, HF, and Alchemist to compare). Hubbard has a lot of technical issues to work out before I could even call them decent (Une Annee is amateurish on its own).

There's something I refer to as the "Chicago IPA," and PW, HA, Rev, and some of Mikerphone's stuff falls into that category. They're all fairly samey, kind of sweet yet somehow also pushing it on the bitterness, -and they mostly have similar hop profiles no matter what hop is actually used (a combo of juicy orange, grapefruit, and pine).

I know it probably sounds like I'm fanboying, but I really don't like TG much from a business perspective, and I think a few of their beers are pretty meh (GNug, Sol Hunter, many X-Hopa). It also probably seems like I'm hating on Chicago, but it's really only reactionary to combat what I perceive as this Chicagoan mentality to pat ourselves on the back before actually getting to the level we are capable of; PW and HA still have a lot of growing up to do for me, and Rev is probably doomed to be the jack of all trades, master of none (like Chicago's version of Surly in my mind). The beer scene here is only getting better, but for a city this size, it's still just above average. I'm really happy to have access to so many good hoppy beers, don't get me wrong, but to me they're not on the same plane of greatness as TG hoppy beers. Honestly, I think what Chicago does better than many other places is lagers, but those are "boring," so I'll keep that discussion tabled.

TG is still making the best hoppy stuff in the Midwest for my money, and I would gladly welcome them into the Chicago market (only IA-brewed stuff since the FL stuff isn't even as good as what we already have on our shelves).

Let's not even get started on the stouts since Assassin, MD, and SR-71 are all much, much better than any Chicago stouts (I'm a huge BCBS fanboy, too). They're better than most other stouts, period, and they would never see a shelf in this city.

 

I've yet to have TG's stouts, but I sincerely doubt they'll do it for me the way Prop '13 (and 14) and Spiteful's BAMCC do, so I like to think we're good on the BA front. And if Rev became Surly, I'd probably sleep in their taproom (I haven't had a non-BA stout on par with with Darkness, and I think Todd the Axeman is up there in terms of quality IPAs)! Different palates, and all.

I guess the big issue I have with this line of thinking is that every region thinks what they have is the best. The west coast thinks they're the IPA capital of the world, the east coast thinks they've re-invented the IPA, etc. I don't want the Chicago guys to do what everyone else does, because that stifles innovation (example: I love Beer Hates Astronauts specifically because the vienna malt in the beer takes it in a different direction from most hoppy beers). What I would like Chicago to work on is making stuff super fresh and unfiltered (ala Enjoy By's example, or like the guys out east). I'm not asking for everything to be a neon yellow milkshake, but given that so much awesome stuff is distributed here, I'd like the local stuff to differentiate itself by doing what it does, but also being as fresh and untouched by preservatives and shit as possible. TG's distribution is kind of slow in my experience, so that'd be another way the local guys could get a leg up.

 

I think part of the issue is what would we actually see?

My assumption would be that most of it is the cans, which are solid but not gamechangers.

The bombers would be a really nice addition, but I don't think they get consistent distro. When they do hit Chicago, I could see them disappearing at near Mikerphone IPA rates.

The stouts aren't even a consideration to me because none of us are getting them. There will be neckbeards camping out in stores before the beer even leaves Iowa.

 

Half Acre's Beer Hates Astronauts is one of the best IPA's I have ever had. I would take it over Todd the Axeman and put it up against Pseudo Sue any day. If Half Acre would release Beer Hates Astronauts regularly I believe it would get the same recognition as Pseudo Sue. Half Acre it killing it right now and my palate has shifted the love towards Navaja forcing the Pipeworks IIPA's to take a backseat which I thought would never happen.

 

BHA is one of my favorite beers, and I prefer it to the canned Sue (haven't had bombers). It's just not as full and ridiculously hoppy as some other beers, so I can see not every single person loving it. Also, while I was initially disappointed that HA shifted Navaja to seemingly 100% mosaic hops, there's something about the current version that is strangely addictive to me; I had Mandarin Dragonet on Friday, and despite feeling that it tasted better than Navaja (citra is my absolute favorite hop by a fairly large margin), I craved a Navaja the whole time. I almost never buy the same beer within even a few months, and I've already bought 3 packs of Navaja since it debuted in cans.

No doubt TG would be incredibly difficult to get for a while. 1) I know places in Wisconsin where PseudoSue cans disappear within a few days, and these aren't exactly beer havens I'm talking about. 2) I was completely unaware Chicago even got Alpine's Nelson, because I've never seen it on a shelf here. I'd imagine that's how the TG stuff will be, at least for a good while. It took a couple years for Surly's Abrasive to stay on shelves more than a day or two, and the same went (I think) for Hopslam. I agree if/when Sue hits town, it'll be a Mikerphone-like situation (you have to run to the store within a few hours).

 

When I went to search for some Mandarin Dragonet, I found a bottle of MD but saw some Navaja out of the corner of my eye. I already had a 4 pack myself but the taste of Navaja speared me out of nowhere and it compelled me to put the MD down to grab another 4 pack. Navaja and Todd are the beers I crave constantly. I like Citra hops a lot myself but the PW fish series seem to have the same flavor profile and taste all the same to me lately. Now that I think about it, if Spotted Puffer was available, it might be the only PW fish beer I would not hesitate grabbing!

 

Yeah, the only Sue bombers that have come out in the past year or so were from Decorah and were either Double Dry Hopped (normal Sue label with "Double Dry Hopped" written on the neck) or Galaxy Hopped Sue which had special labeling with space Sue.

I think one of the worst perpetrators of old TG bottles was a liquor store from my home town. Was driving through and decided to stop by and noticed they had 1492 6 packs. I didn't think I had that in over a year and heard anything about it releasing and sure enough, it was dated back in September or early October lol. Not ideal for an IPA, I'd say.

 

Canned Sue is blatantly nowhere close to the real deal. People aren't kidding when they say FL brewed TG struggles. It is still good, but it's not representative of the genuine article and should not be considered as such. I agree totally that there are better beers on shelves in Chicago right now than canned Sue.

I've had all the stouts you mentioned, and TG just does it better. The mouthfeel is thicker, the alcohol is better hidden, the fudginess is massive, the balance is better, and the barrel presence is second to none. Of course palates need to be considered, but this is a rare case that I would say the hype is justified, and until you've had them, I wouldn't underestimate what they can be.

While Alpine Nelson did make it here, it wasn't real Nelson. GF-brewed Alpine is just like FL-brewed Sue AKA a poor imitation, a shadow of its true self. Real Nelson is still one of the best beers I've ever had. GF Nelson was just another above average IPA.

All that dissension aside, I can't agree enough they Navaja in cans is the best thing to happen to Chicago hoppy beers in...maybe ever. I love that beer so very much, and I'm a huge hater of Half Acre due to my perception that they over-hop everything into unpleasantly bitter territory (see especially Daisy Cutter, Pony [pilsner? I think not], Akari Shogun, and Black Feather). This beer completely turned me around on them, though, and while they're still not my favorite local brewery, I am constantly buying Navaja because it's honestly absolutely amazing. It reminds me a ton of Todd but juicier, better balanced, and somehow more drinkable at its higher ABV. Long live those gorgeous golden cans.

 

I've had Sue on tap, one of the recently bottled Sue dry hop variants as well as King Sue. All of them are damn fine beers but I think it's a bit disingenuous to say they are the best hoppy beers in the midwest (at least that's my opinion). Three Floyds makes a ton of great hoppy beers, Surly does as well, I absolutely love what I've been having from Half Acre lately too.

On a side note since it was mentioned, I had the "original" Nelson back a few years ago and was not blown away by it (I got a shipper of all sorts of Alpine stuff and didn't think any of it was all that special).

With respect to the barrel/stout beers, I have only had one of TG's barrel aged stouts and it was definitely great but I've had better (dreams of FOBAB anyone??).

I also spent a lot of time living in the NorthEast and have been able to try some of the great breweries out there. In my simple mind (with I'm sure a sub-par palette compared to some of the beer studs on here), there's simply incredible beer all over the country right now. There's always going to be the new "most amazing brewery of all time!!!" and they will just add to the volume of already great beer out there now. Just because TG has come along doesn't make the other amazing midwest beers less good (let's not forget Three Floyds used to be considered the best brewery in the country), it just adds to it. The quantity of legit amazing beer just sitting on shelves right now is one of the reasons I just cannot bring myself to wait in line for beer (maybe I'm not a true advocate but I'm cool with that).

 

Wow man. You took the words right out of my mouth with regard to hoppy beers. I have only had MD of their stouts and honestly, the Side Note I've had is the closest we have here (non-BA). I think Transient's Juice is Loose is the best we have but it's a 90 minute drive. No different than driving to Wisconsin to get some TG hops.

 

Thanks!

I haven't had Transient's hoppy stuff, much to my chagrin, but I plan to head over sometime and give them a try. I think they're a very good and versatile brewery overall (with a few misses particularly with Berliners and saisons, though I think I'm, again, in the minority in not thinking everything they've done is great), so I'm excited to see what they can bring to the hoppy game.

 

I may have misrepresented my feelings on TG; I don't doubt that their stouts are amazing, and I really like their beers. I'm just not particularly worried about whether or not they get here in a timely fashion, because I've already found others that I'll most likely prefer (that Prop '13 ain't gettin knocked off the top shelf, honestly).

In terms of Nelson, I've never had it in Chicago, and I don't really follow Alpine (although I was aware that GF bought them); is the "real" Alpine only distro'd in California? I think I had a bottle in North Carolina, and that's about it.

Anyway, let me backtrack/summarize: I'm a big fan of TG and will be excited if/when they hit Chicago (mainly because while I'm in Wisconsin constantly, the areas I go to don't consistently get TG, if at all). It just won't change my life, because I've got way too much beer on my hands here already. In some ways I'd rather have an unknown quantity like Trillium or Treehouse (unknown in that I haven't thrown their beers into my dome) do distro here because they do a style of IPA that's underrepresented (and I know your thoughts on Mikerphone et al). Not trying to derail the conversation, just saying I'm more about adding something where there's nothing.

Back on topic, I'm curious about this beer run Oct. 15th. I'd definitely like to drink some more King Sue (especially given the above discussion!), and the area around the Field Museum is pretty nice.

 

Alpine-brewed-Alpine used to be very limited and only SoCal in terms of distribution, as far as I'm aware. I have no clue what the situation is now, but as I understand it, you need to go to the brewery to get anything that hasn't been sullied by GF's inept hands.

 

Re this: In addition to the 3 pseudoSue bombers you've mentioned, there was also a Mosaic dry hopped Sue with a Pompeii-esque/Sosus-esque (mosaic) Sue label. 4 different Sues released this year in Decorah bomber format (excluding King Sue).

 

This thread has turned into a secret TG Appreciation thread, which is funny considering the actual TG appreciation thread was locked shortly after the MD ticket sale.

 

Oops you're right! I forgot about that since I only had one. All four were pretty great and much better than the canned Sue, but at the same time, they also get extra love and care.

While I'm sure people will disagree with me, I think those Sue bombers this past summer were the best Midwest APAs I've ever had. I've had fresh ZD on tap and in bottles on many occasions and others, and I don't think it's close. Maybe I'm a homer and maybe my palate isn't as defined as others, but still.

In the end, I don't think I care too much if it hits Chicago or not. I think most Chicago people have a taste for things like Revolution and the sort which I'm not fond of really. I'm pretty lucky that I live in an area that gets most of their special releases and I'm content with that.

 

I think we've all got a certain amount of homerism (all things being equal, why wouldn't you prefer the local stuff), but honestly, for the top beers in a given style, I think it's impossible to really say one is "the best." Palates are just way too different for anyone to need to apologize for their preference. I've never understood the ZD love, as I think it's one of the most overrated beers in the Chicago area (maybe #1), but I also understand that my mouth doesn't speak for everyone.

Well...yeah, if you're not here in Chicago, I can see you not caring whether we get TG or not.

Seriously though, Revolution is definitely a popular brewery, but I don't think that's to say that everyone around here thinks Anti-Hero or the like is the best. If TG's better hoppy beers hit here, they'd fly off the shelves quicker than almost anything Rev puts out (the exception possibly being something like Unsessionable). If there's one thing Chicago loves (besides barrel-aged stouts) it's IPAs!