Berliner Weisse Sourness question

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by holzwama, Oct 10, 2016.

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  1. holzwama

    holzwama Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2015 Minnesota

    Attempt #3 at a Berliner Weisse.
    10 gal batch
    8# 2 row 6# white wheat mash at 151 for 60 minutes, sparge... boil 10 minutes, cool, add Good Belly (lacto) keep warm at 100 until "done souring"
    Boil, hops, cool, "regular" yeast

    I have a few questions. I brewed this last night and I'm keeping it warm.
    1. Can I add lactic acid now to get it sour faster or to help it out? My initial test strip didn't read anything as they start at 4.4?
    2. Can I add DME to up the ABV when I boil it and add hops? I don't want a 2-3% beer when I'm done.
     
  2. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    Sounds like most Berlinerweisses (3% ABV)
     
  3. holzwama

    holzwama Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2015 Minnesota

    I know, just trying to get a little more mileage out of my effort and beer.
     
  4. Brewday

    Brewday Zealot (721) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    Without the right yeast it's just a sour. With a lite malt recipe i usually add 1 tsp of lactic acid after first boil to lower ph to 4.6 before souring. You don't have to make a low ABV batch. I would say yes to #1 but not much.
     
  5. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    1. No need to use lactic acid now and it's not necessary to keep L. plantarum (the lacto strain in Good Belly) at a higher temp...it's one of the only lacto species that can't drop pH at room temp. Give it another couple of days and the pH should drop, if you have no oxygen leaking into the fermenter.

    2. Yes you can add DME at the boil to up the OG.
     
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  6. holzwama

    holzwama Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2015 Minnesota

    Great info about that Lacto strain. I started the fire last night and again at 5:15 am today. I was planning on babysitting it for a few days this week, may not need to as much now.
    I'll purge each day with CO2 also.
    I'll check gravity, but I'd like to get it up closer to 4-5% if I could.

    Also, I'm using dry, 005, I believe post boil and hops.

    Thanks for the info.

    Best idea for 2ndary on fruit. I"m thinking 1 peach, 1 blackberry.
    I've heard lots of different ideas, most are lbs/ gal and it's high!
     
  7. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    If you use peaches, use at least 15 lbs for 5 gallons...I used 10-12 pounds recently and found it to not be enough to really give it a noticeable peach characteristic.
     
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  8. holzwama

    holzwama Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2015 Minnesota

    Good to know... ISO: someone from Georgia with a peach tree!!!
    Also, I don't think my wort started at a very low pH (above 5). Will that be fine and just take longer? I'm worried I should have added lactic acid to get it to below 5 before pitching Good Belly.
    I just want someone to say it will be fine...

    15lbs of peaches, will that fit in a 6.5 gallon bigmouth with 5 gallons of wort????
     
  9. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,891) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    I used apricot puree on my last BW, and I must say, I didn't use nearly enough! But that stuff's way too damned expensive to use more than 2 cans. Peaches sound great, but 15 lbs sounds like it'll be pushing the limit of a 6.5 gal big mouth.

    I don't think you'll need to purge the headspace with CO2. You shouldn't get any butyric acid (fecal, vomit) from L. plantarum. At least I didn't with mine, and I didn't worry much about oxygen exposure at all. Just keep checking with pH strips but goodbelly should get your wort below 4 in just a few days, even at room temp. I think I used a 16 oz. dosage of the Mango once the wort got below 100F.
     
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  10. holzwama

    holzwama Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2015 Minnesota

    This is attempt # 2 with this same recipe. I found one of my thermometers was off, so I hope that was the problem last time.
    It smelled terrible after 24 hours, butyric for sure. Neighbors were asking questions. It was dirty diaper and vomit wrapped up in one. Not good. This time, I made sure to boil the water to help sterilize the kettle, then I boiled the wort for 10-15 minutes prior to chilling.
    16oz/ 5 or 10 gallon. I used the coconut water 16oz carton for 10 gallons. I finally found several people say the Mango was used more often. I had all 3, as I do like them to drink as well.
    Anyway, it is getting sour, but still not down to where my pH strips will read last night (4.6?). It's taking on an odor of sour mash, I think.
     
  11. DavidlovesCBC

    DavidlovesCBC Initiate (0) Jan 25, 2014 Florida

    You should be fine starting at a higher pH, adding lactic acid before pitching lacto is mainly to inhibit nasty bacteria from taking over and to keep the lacto from producing a enzyme that destroys your head retention
     
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  12. holzwama

    holzwama Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2015 Minnesota

    Sorry to be difficult, but pitched Good Belly Sunday night and checked pH last night and it still wasn't down to 4.6 on my strips. I added about 8 more ounces of Good Belly.
    The only thing I can think was that I heated it up to 120 on Monday to get it back closer to 100.
    I misjudged my new Blickmann burner and over shot. Would 120 kill this strain of L Planterum?
     
  13. DrMindbender

    DrMindbender Initiate (0) Jul 13, 2014 South Carolina

    Shouldnt kill it. Did you use any hops in this beer so far? IMO, it seems that something in there is inhibiting the LAB from dropping the pH.
     
  14. holzwama

    holzwama Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2015 Minnesota

    No hops yet. I kept the mash to around 150 for over an hour, added 180-190 water for sparge, boiled for 10-15 minutes, chilled with copper coil, added Good Belly, shot CO2 in and put the lid on.
    I've heated it a few times, otherwise, it sits in the garage on the burner with blankets on it.
    I'll check again tonight. Really want this attempt to work, as the wife said, this is my last chance.

    Side note, Costco 6lbs peaches $9, so 15lbs $23... may need to find another fruit!! Maybe I'll just add that to 3-4 gallons and keep the other or another fruit. Ugh...
     
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  15. DavidlovesCBC

    DavidlovesCBC Initiate (0) Jan 25, 2014 Florida

    Your pH paper maybe off also. Ph paper really should be stored with a dessicant. Tried and true method, give it a taste
     
  16. holzwama

    holzwama Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2015 Minnesota

    Yup, that could be. I'll test it with some vinegar. I'll also taste it tonight.
    I got my pH paper from Punta Mayo, so Kramer probably took all the desiccates out. (Seinfeld reference, sorry)
     
  17. Brewday

    Brewday Zealot (721) Dec 25, 2015 New York

    Never saw someone use a burner. I use a electric foot warming pad, wrap the kettle with flexible foam,and surround the kettle with a 1" foam box sealed with towels. Then i put co2 on the wort, lay saran wrap so it touches the wort,hit with co2, then seal the top with saran wrap and lid. Is this a electric burner.
     
  18. holzwama

    holzwama Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2015 Minnesota

    No, it's my standard brew burner. I tried heating pads list time and they barely helped the 10 gallons get any warmer. This time, I'm wrapping in blankets and it seems to be working much better even though the temp in 30 degrees cooler here than it was in July.
    I should have done saran wrap, but I've blasted it with CO2 twice now, so I should be ok.
     
  19. DavidlovesCBC

    DavidlovesCBC Initiate (0) Jan 25, 2014 Florida

    Lacto plantarum sours fine at room temp
     
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  20. DavidlovesCBC

    DavidlovesCBC Initiate (0) Jan 25, 2014 Florida

    No need to keep it warm
     
    ac24 likes this.
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