Massive Oktoberfest Taste Test

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by ZAP, Oct 23, 2016.

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  1. ZAP

    ZAP Grand Pooh-Bah (4,048) Dec 1, 2001 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    This is the most extensive Oktoberfest tasting I have done. It involved 30 beers and took place over two months. The goal this year was to evaluate the beers holding the German standards as the benchmark. Beers with too much hops, too much sweet caramel, toffee, etc were downgraded. Personally I don’t mind drinking those beers but I wanted to see how this field stacked up when graded to the highest standards of Oktoberfest lagers.

    In the past I did large tastings with 10 -12 beers in one taste test.. I wanted to avoid palate fatigue in this one and structured it so there would never be any more than six beers in a tasting and usually it was limited to five.

    Each beer was tasted blindly at least twice. Some were tasted as many as five times. The initial tasting of each beer was random. All 30 were in the fridge and my wife randomly selected five, poured them out, kept the key and I rated them. We did six flights like this over about two weeks. Only then did I look at the scores, and notes I had and learn which beers scored where.

    The next step was to separate closely bunched beers in the first round of ratings so subsequent blind tasting included tiers of beers close to each other after the initial round. These tasting rounds including up to six beers and this time I did know what beers were included in each grouping, but I did not know what groupings we were doing each time. I did it this way so I didn’t know if I was tasting a highly rated group or a low rated group.

    After the second round of tasting scores were averaged and beers within a couple points of each other went into a third round of tasting. This was often just two or three beers at a time and this time I did know which beers were in the field, just not which were in the glasses.

    After this third round of tastings, scores were averaged again and the top ten rated beers overall were split into two groups of five. On different days I scored these two groups of beers.

    Scores were averaged out again for these top ten beers and a final group of five was established.

    The final tasting was conducted and scored and those scores were averaged into the final scores. The final list is the average score of beers. It just so happens

    The top rated beer was also the one that finished first in the final tasting.

    Beers were rated 1-100 on a grading scale as if I was grading a term paper.

    59 and less=F

    60=D-

    65=D

    70=C-

    75=C

    80=B-

    85=B

    90=A-

    95=A


    *A special thanks to my wife for pouring out all these tastings and keeping the keys for me….and for not asking questions about all the money I spent on these Oktoberfest beers.


    30. Old Style Oktoberfest (50 points ): I expected this to me more along the lines of Point or Leine’s version but it was much worse. Not a bad beer but drinks more like a hoppy amber ale. Lacks pretty much any characteristics you’d expect for an Oktoberfest.

    29. Fargo (60 points):
    I was not expecting this to be near the top but didn’t think it would finish this low based on my experience with it last year. This version has some toasty maltiness to it but also much too heavy handed with the hops which lend a citrus flavor and a sharp finish.

    28. Odell (62): Light caramel, fruity hops, hint of spoiled eggs. Another one more like an amber ale.

    27. Shiner (63):
    Lacks flavor, some sharpness of alcohol present, some malt sweetness emerges late but not an acceptable version.

    26. Great Lakes (64): Sweet candy flavor…too sweet and sugary…muddled looking in glass…light spoiled eggs on aroma…a touch of caramel apple sourness. Not very good.

    25. Left Hand (68): Looks the part with nice clarity and an amber color. Candy caramel aroma, a bit thin, finishes with too much bitterness for style.

    23. (tie): Millstream (70):Sweeter with caramel like malt flavor…a little musty…not to style but ok.

    23. (tie): Point (70): Light caramel flavor, thinnish…ok

    21. (tie): Sam Adams (71): Unique toasted caramel candy. Pretty gooey and muddled. Sweet flavor. It’s ok.

    21. (tie): Victory (71):
    Very disappointed with how this fared. Based on the info on its brewing process and the reputation of this brewery I expected this to give the German’s a run. Toasty malt, light spoiled eggs on aroma, not clean tasting but ok A little dirty and thin. Nice burnt orange color.

    19. (tie): Goose Island (72): Sticky sweet, sugary caramel flavor, over sweet.

    19. (tie): Sprecher (72): Another one I expected to make a run that fell short and finished the second lowest ranked out of the six Wisconsin offerings. Sweet, sugary caramel flavor. Caramel bomb. Not to style but not a bad beer.

    18. Sierra Nevada (73): Light grainy, bready aroma…light bread grains on the taste…herbal hops, but too much bitterness on the finish..some lemony notes..decent enough

    17. Leinekugel’s (74): Weakly flavored and a bit adjuncty tasting. Not too sweet, some toasty malts but nothing distinguishing either.

    15. (tie) Capitol (77):
    Nice toasty malt flavor. Caramel notes not noticeable. Malty and almost a little sticky.

    15. (tie) Lakefront (77): A bity too much carbonation and has a fizzy feel at points. Mild malt sweetness. A quality German style malt feel to this. Too bad the carbonation and fizzy feel brings it down a little. Flavor wise this is an 83-to-85.

    13. (tie) Brooklyn (78): Light toasted malts, along with a toffee like flavor. Good flavor. A bit thin.

    13. (tie) Summit (78): I’ve always found this a bit boozy and sticky but it showed up well in the tastings. Munich malt notes evident on aroma and taste. Slightly boozy with too much alcohol bite but nice Munich maltyness.

    12. Spaten (79):
    Basic German malt feel, dry finish, slight skunkiness..pretty solid overall. Probably an 85ish beer without the slight skunk…

    11. Bell’s (80): Bready, toasty malts…nice. Grassy hops. This is legit.

    10. Central Waters (82): Nice toasted malts with a light caramel breadiness which is acceptable per style. I liked it and the tasting notes on all the tastings were remarkably similar.

    8. (tie) Schells (83):The highest scoring US Oktoberfest and I am not surprised. I noted toasty, bready malts…a couple of the tastings I noted German like malt backing. I’ve never found this boozy before but one of the notes mentioned it being slightly boozy on the finish.

    8. (tie) Weihenstphener (83)
    :Lighter bodied. Grainy sweet, pretty good wiesn style…pretty flavorful pils like malt with light grassy hops but lighter style….slight skunk

    7. Hacker-Pschorr (85):Nice basic German style malt backing with a spicy, dry finish….

    4. (tie) Becks (86):Surprise, surprise. Never expected Beck’s to top Spaten. Might have had to do with freshness but there was no question in the scores or the comments. Nice grainy toasty maltiness with a slight dry finish..some bready notes..great looking beer with a clear burnt orange color…rich, impressive grainy malt aroma…slightly sharp on the finish.

    4. (tie) Dinkelacker (86): Never heard of this brewery but this Oktoberfest was unique and scored well. Aroma was noted as cola like in all the tasting notes. Flavor described as big and bready with grapenuts like notes and hard water mineral characteristics.

    4. (tie) Ayinger (86): Clean malt with a rich impression probably from decoction. Rich malty aroma…grainy flavor that keeps getting better. Very good.

    3. Warsteiner (87):
    I’ve never been huge fan of Warsteiner but this showed up in the taste testing’s. Multiple comments on tasty, toasty Munich like malts…bready….upper level…

    2. Hoffbrau (88): The initial tasting scored it 81 but it was from a bottle and some off notes were present. Decided to buy two of the mini-kegs for the future tastings. Scores jumped up considerably. Clean yet pleasantly sweet with a grainy wiesn style. Excellent clarity. Sweet pils like malt with a touch of grapenuts. Grassy hops but not overdone…other comments…”great beer”…”good light sweetness’….

    1.Paulaner (92): I’ve always thought Hacker and Paulaner Oktoberfests were the same beer but in this tasting Paulaner came out on top each and every tasting. Maybe it was the bottle conditioning. I don’t know but the comments were relatively the same for both beers. This one had notes of nice rich German malt flavor with light spicy hop notes. Lightly toasty…top notch.

    ****I did not review Paulaner Wiesn.

    ****The initial round tasting were easier to score with a wider range of beers. The final ten were a bitch to separate for the most part. The final scores are what I came up with but the final ten are all really top notch...even the next few after that could belong in the top ten
     
    #1 ZAP, Oct 23, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
    utopiajane, JMN44, JDoHo and 33 others like this.
  2. MNAle

    MNAle Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Wow! Very ambitious! Thanks (and thanks to your wife!)

    Of the 6 that I tried this fall, (Ayinger, Schell's, Hacker-Pschorr, Summit, Bell's, and Hofbräu - and my tasting was decidedly NOT a blind test...), the one that we differ on the most is the Hofbräu, but then, all of my samples were from bottles.

    We agree that Schell's gives the Germans a good run for the money and that the Summit is a bit boozy.
     
  3. ZAP

    ZAP Grand Pooh-Bah (4,048) Dec 1, 2001 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yeah I almost pulled Hoffbrau from the tasting after the bottle tasting as it was clearly not 100% but still scored low b- range...made me decide to pull the trigger on a couple of the mini kegs. One of which sat for five days after the tasting and I finished it at that point (no taste testing with it at this point)...let me just say those mini kegs are not designed to last five days after they are opened. I drank it but very flat...
     
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  4. KarlHungus

    KarlHungus Grand Pooh-Bah (3,315) Feb 19, 2005 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah

    I always enjoy your reading blind tasting notes, Zap. This iteration is no exception.

    As for Dinkelacker, they make really nice beer. I lived in Stuttgart where the brewery is located in the early 2000's, and drank a lot of their beer fresh from the source. Their pilseners are fantastic. Sadly, I have yet to find any of their beers even remotely close to fresh here in the States.

    Also, nice catch on the hard water mineral characteristics. I found that in most of the beers made by Stuttgart breweries, and really appreciate it in German styles.
     
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  5. Ronners14

    Ronners14 Initiate (0) Oct 23, 2016 Missouri

    Thanks for the post Zap. I'd done my own taste tests recently, though not blind, and not as thorough as yours. It was interesting comparing my results to yours. I posted my results to Quora, found here: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-Oktoberfest-beer

    In general, we disagreed a lot, but also had some spot on matches too. I rated mine on a 1-10 scale, so I factored everything up by 10 to match your scale.

    Biggest Differences (My score, Your score, Difference):
    • Hofbrau - 49, 88, +39 *
    • Paulaner - 71, 92, +21
    • Dinkel Acker - 70, 86, +16
    • Hacker Pschorr - 70, 85, +15
    • O'Dell - 73, 62, -11
    • Bell's - 69, 80, +11
    • Shiner - 77, 63, -14
    • Left hand - 87, 68, -19
    Closest Matches (My score, Your score, Difference):
    • Leinenkugel - 74, 74, 0
    • Sam Adams - 71, 71, 0
    • Sierra Nevada - 73, 73, 0
    I have about 10 beers not on your list (many local or regional St. Louis beers), and you had some I've seen that I still have to try.

    Please note that I post this for fun and information only. I'm no real connoisseur, and just rated the beers based on my personal preferences, so your mileage may vary.

    * - I'm really hoping I just got a bad bottle of the Hofbrau. It was so far off from the other brews that I seriously thought they mislabeled an IPA at first!
     
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  6. TongoRad

    TongoRad Grand Pooh-Bah (3,884) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    IPA?:astonished: Something was definitely off, then. Over-hoppiness is the last thing I'd associate with that beer. And whatever hop character it has is very much in the grassy noble hop realm. I had it neck and neck with Weihenstephaner, but ultimately dropped it to 2nd because I thought it needed a touch more snap from the bitterness this year.

    I also found the Spaten to be outstanding this year. I'm very careful about buying beer in green bottles, though, and don't really have a problem with skunkiness.

    Really fantastic job, though, @ZAP ! That obviously took a lot of time and effort. I'm having a hard enough time arranging my own small tastings.
     
  7. Fordcoyote15

    Fordcoyote15 Pooh-Bah (2,368) Nov 19, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I've had 40 or 50 myself and the sparsely distributed penn brewery from Pittsburgh is the best I've had.

    Zap - I'd be happy to send you 1 or 2 if you can't get it and are interested in trying.
     
  8. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Initiate (0) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona

    Awesome post!
     
  9. Wasatch

    Wasatch Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,050) Jun 8, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Impressive!

    Cheers!
     
  10. fx20736

    fx20736 Initiate (0) Mar 7, 2009 New York

    Nice post! The key to enjoying Hofbrau in bottles is to buy it by the case (unopened) to prevent getting a skunky beer. I have gone through 5 cases of it since Labor Day and feel that it is the best with Ayinger, Weihenstephan and Sierra Nevada not far behind.
     
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  11. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Pooh-Bah (2,275) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I am in the last two heats of a similar blind test. I used slightly different methods, but it was blind, and I did Festbiers separately from Märzens. When it's all said and done, it'll total over forty. I will do a similar post when it's finished to publish my findings. Very cool to see Schell's finish high!
     
  12. Urk1127

    Urk1127 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,790) Jul 2, 2014 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I saw you had spoiled eggs down for odells. And thats most likely H2S or hydrogen sulfide. Its basically because the yeast says a big fuck you or was fermented too hot. Just my 2 cents on that "flavor" in general

    Great post. My favorites This year were Yuengling and Paulaner.
     
  13. ZAP

    ZAP Grand Pooh-Bah (4,048) Dec 1, 2001 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Penn is one I assumed would be good but have no access to so yeah I'd be up for that. I'll message you and can send some Schells out your way if you do not get that.
     
  14. ZAP

    ZAP Grand Pooh-Bah (4,048) Dec 1, 2001 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Can't wait to see...hope you have Staghorn which I could not get easy access to and would have loved to have included..
     
  15. ZAP

    ZAP Grand Pooh-Bah (4,048) Dec 1, 2001 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thanks for the info on the spoiled eggs...I'm not a brewer so I have no idea really what gives that off but now I know...thanks...
     
  16. ZAP

    ZAP Grand Pooh-Bah (4,048) Dec 1, 2001 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Good idea splitting them up. It was so clear when tasting I just rated them for the style but it would be a better tasting to split them up....
     
  17. ZAP

    ZAP Grand Pooh-Bah (4,048) Dec 1, 2001 Minnesota
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    The Hoffbrau I had in bottles was not 100% but your method for purchasing makes a lot of sense....the minikegs really let the beer shine through but they do not last long...
     
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  18. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Pooh-Bah (2,275) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Thanks! I did get Staghorn (and a few other big name ones, but that meant leaving out some "lesser" ones that I expected to suck, like Old Style). We have different enough pools that I think it'll still be interesting to see, and I also did it slightly differently overall. I'll post a link here in this thread so you can see it when I post. It won't be for a week or so though.
     
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  19. woodychandler

    woodychandler Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,184) Apr 9, 2004 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah Trader

    This was my entry for yesterday's New Beer Sunday (Week 609):

    Bro. Woody's New OktoBierFest Sunday (Week TBD)

    I'm back! Phew. What an interesting day it has been, filled with NFL football and German-inspired biers.

    I began with an organic rendition of the style:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/13884/134861/?ba=woodychandler#review

    then I turned my focus local, first east with:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/345/1017/?ba=woodychandler#review

    then west with:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/17034/52998/?ba=woodychandler#review

    followed by south & west with:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/68/19651/?ba=woodychandler#review

    I lost my bearings and suddenly turned northeast for a stop in Brooklyn:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/45/570/?ba=woodychandler#review

    before heading up the east coast for a brief interlude:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/688/6756/?ba=woodychandler#review

    and then I (sort of) heeded Horace Greeley's advice and headed to the Midwest, first with:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/73/13896/?ba=woodychandler#review

    and then I followed Bob Dylan's advice and brought it all back home to my adopted Midwest with:

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/741/5758/?ba=woodychandler#review

    I may come away from this with my first hangover in a while, but it was certainly an interesting endeavor. See yinz next Sunday with more misadventures!

    I both reviewed & rated each of them for the first time. This may be of interest to the OP.
     
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  20. HammsMeASAP

    HammsMeASAP Pundit (931) Jun 14, 2012 Minnesota

    We agreed on Odell in another thread.

    And I'll agree with you on Fargo. Horrible.

    Haven't had too many to say which is best yet.
     
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