Zombie Dust clone recipe (LME 2016 thread)

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by bubseymour, Dec 26, 2016.

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  1. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thanks that was a perfect video to explain. I'll do this tomorrow.

    I'm guessing do most of you wait until boil is done to start fooling with yeast heating, or try best to juggle back and forth between the 2 processes (boil and rehydrating yeast) so there isn't much time gap between flameout and cooling your boil down? Just wondering.

    My first batch I did, I found the biggest mental challenge was the whole transitioning between the boil thru cool down to fermeter to yeast pitch. Actually doing the boil recipe was pretty peaceful and easy.
     
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    I personally boil the water in a measuring cup just before boiling the wort. I place the boiled water on a trivet and after about an hour (the timeframe for boiling the wort) the water generally comes down to a temperature about 86 degrees F (the proper temperature to pour the dry yeast in). I am able to get my wort down to pitchable temperatures in around 20 minutes which is consistent with the dry yeast rehydration timeframe. I personally use wort to attemporate the rehydrated yeast.

    You will likely come up with your own process which is consistent with your personal homebrewery setup.

    Cheers!
     
  3. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Brew day complete.

    ~5.5 gallons in the fermentor and got down to 65F before pitching yeast.

    Only concerns are as follows. Otherwise I was very pleased with how things went today:
    I pitched 1oz hops at 60 min. and forgot to cut it back to .3-.5oz. Hopefully that doesn't up the bitterness level.

    I followed the yeast rehydration process, but it sat in the water closer to 1 hr. before I was able to pitch instead of only 30min. Hopefull that extra 1/2 hr. didn't start to starve them.

    After adding 25% of the LME at start of boil (to keep it light in color) I noticed with my stove setup it took about 10 min. to get things boiling again. Because of this time delay, I decided to add the remaining 75% of LME at the 25min. marker instead of 10min remaining as recommended because I wanted to be sure it was boiling during hop additions. Not quite boiling again at 15min addition but was fine at the 10min hop addition.

    Got it in my basement where its currently 63F air temp. It 's been staying 61-65 down there all the time when I've checked this week. Too cold?

    My closet upstairs maintains between 63-70 range. Is a that better place to keep it or let it go in basement for the 72hrs (3 days)?
     
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  4. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Once fermentation commences the temperature of wort/beer will be higher than ambient since fermentation is an exothermic reaction. You can wrap the fermentor in blanket(s) to encourage a higher temperature if you are so inclined.

    Cheers!
     
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  5. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    If its only 3 days before I move upstairs, I'm hoping it should be fine. I plan to adjust thermostat warmer which should keep it a min. of 63 down there.

    Darn, I just realized in the mayhem of cooling and yeast pitch, I forgot to take the OG before pitching. Oh well....it will end up somewhere from 5.5%-6.2% I'm sure. Hopefull closer to 6%.
     
  6. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Your OG would have been around 1.070 since that is what the recipe calls for. (The beauty of extract brewing is that it is predictable as long as you follow the recipe's amounts.) Because you have 5.5 gallons (insted of the 5.0 per the recipe) yours will be a little lower.

    Were you able to boil 6.5 gallons on your stove, or did you downsize the liquid amount in the interest of a speedy boil?
     
  7. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I started with 5 gallons on the stove of water (then after adding 6 lbs of LME and .5 gallons of steeping malts water it probably was closer to 6 gallons (but some boil off). I left probably bottom 1/2 to 3/4 gallons of hop residue etc. from boil I didn't transfer to fermenter. After transitioning into the bucket fermenter I added some purified bottled water to get volume in fermenter up to 5.5 gallons. Figured when I go to bottle, I'd end up leaving about another 1/4 - 1/2 gallon in the bottom of the fermenter from the trub so I'd end with ~5 gallons of bottled beer give or take. Hopefully I did my math and adjustments properly and didn't make it too thin/watery.
     
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  8. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
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    Some more questions now that my fermentation is going. I'm almost 48hrs in primary now and its bubbling out of the blow-off tube @ ~1 second now so I guess yeast is working good).

    1) Says to dry hop the remaining 3 oz of citra after 7-10 days. Do I need to take hydrometer reading starting on day 6 then keep checking daily for no change, and then its time to dry hop? My first homebrew (saison), it said to go to bottling when there was no further change in gravity reading so IPAs might be a little different? Just wondering.
    2) Read to not leave in dry hopping in for more than 10-14 days (vegetable/off flavors develop). What is minimal time to leave in dry hopping (what are nuances in aroma/flavor to expect if doing Dry Hop for less days vs. more days)?
    3) About how long should I expect to wait to bottle this brew? Just wondering the approximate fermentation/dry hopping duration.
    4) Should I pop 1st bottle to sample after 7 days/1 week of conditioning or is that too soon/too late?

    PS: I found out about the 3 hop bags question from earlier. Homebrew store guy said the bags are small and 1 oz hop pellets expand alot and a bag per oz. is recommended so the bags don't expand out too far and ensure all the hops get utlized the best. Only 60 cents a bag so not like he's gaming me to boost profits or anything.
     
  9. ECCS

    ECCS Pundit (755) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois

    There are some differing opinions on when to dry hop. Some say if adding hops while primary fermentation is still going, the yeast cells going dormant will "pull down" the hop oils with them into the trub and diminish the returns on the hops. On the other hand, in multiple NEIPA threads it has been discussed that certain yeasts during primary fermentation will interact positively with hop additions (called biotransformation, mostly with Wyeast 1318 and Conan yeast).

    In my Last IPA, I dry hopped on day 7 (gravity was 1.020 with an expected FG of 1.016). I left the dry hops in for 7 days, hitting my FG with 3 consecutive readings on days 12, 13, 14. I bottled day 14 after pitching yeast.

    I usually do a test bottle 7 days after I bottle to check the carbonation. It is usually slightly under carbed at that point.

    From my bottle conditioning experience with IPAs, they usually drink well 21-49 days after bottling.

    Cheers
     
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  10. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Grand Pooh-Bah (3,348) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    On west coast ipas I dry hop on day 14 and leave the hops in for 7 days. My neipa is a different beast all together, different yeast, different final product. For Z dust clone with american yeast, day 7-14 is where I would dryhop with a bottling date 7 days after hopping.
     
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  11. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    1. I wouldn't take a gravity reading when adding the dry hops. You're just messing needlessly with the beer, and there is a chance that the beer isn't done fermenting anyway, so the info from a reading could be meaningless. But go ahead and dry hop per your schedule, i.e. when it's clear that the fermentation is winding down or near the end.
    2. Most people say not to go past 14 days dry hopping. I usually pick some weekend day that will occur between the 7-14 day period for my convenience when I have the time to bottle.
    3. A few days before you have scheduled time to bottle per my #2 above is the time to take your first reading, and then the day before you plan to bottle should be the second reading that will confirm that fermentation is complete (hopefully). If the reading differs too much, construct a Plan B.
    4. I usually try a bottle after 7 days to determine the progress of the carbonation to see if I should relocate the bottles to a warmer location if progress is not evident. But I agree with @ECCS that the peak flavor won't occur until 3 weeks after packaging. I'll advise you to drink some along the way to that 3-week mark as a learning experience of the taste-condition process. However, with 5-gallons you should get 50 bottles, so there is plenty to drink at whatever schedule you want. Enjoy your ZD clone anytime that you want - young or old.
     
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  12. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Yesterday morning (around 48hr mark), my beer was fermenting at its highest, bubbling in 1 sec. intervals. Later last night (around 55-60 hrs), it quickly dropped down to once every 10 sec. bubbling. I decided to move it upstairs about 18 hours earlier than the 72 recommended because of the dropoff, thinking its too cool in basement. Its now in a room about 3 degrees warmer on average (66-68 avg. temp vs. 63-65 avg. temp readings in basement). Been about 12 hrs. upstairs and its down to 20 sec. bubbling intervals. Should fermentation pick back up or is going to continue to wind down? Seems so early in the game to be falling off fermenting so quickly. Just wondering.
     
  13. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    There should be a slight reaction to placing the fermentor in a warmer location, but I don't think it will be significant because your rapid drop-off in the bubbling is a strong hint that your yeast have their bellies full. You can watch it for a day and then decide whether to go ahead with your dry hopping.
     
  14. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
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    Thanks @Mothergoose03 . I'll see if the bubbling stops in another day or 2 and then progress to dry hopping.

    Just some ideas tinkering in my head regarding dry hopping.

    What would happen differently (or not), if you:

    Option 1 put all 3 oz of hops in at same time and leave in for 7-10 days.
    Option 2 put in 1oz, then 2-3 days later put in another oz and 2-3 days later put in another oz.

    Any benefit to staggering the dry hopping to gain flavor/aroma or that doesn't have any real gain.?
     
  15. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    The clone recipe for Pliny the Elder uses this procedure, so one notable brewer has a reason for doing it. I'm guessing that the staggered addition of hops will add greatly to the aroma because of the last ones added. Go for it.
     
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  16. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    Dave Green (@telejunkie) discussed layering of dry hopping in his BYO article entitled Advanced Dry Hopping:

    “Jamil Zainasheff pointed out an important nuance to me: "The main reason is that we're dry hopping into cylindroconical fermenters. The bottom is a narrow cone, which means that when the hops drop to the bottom, it results in a smaller surface area." He said not to worry about layering in dry hops on a small scale. Peter Wolfe also weighed in on the topic saying especially if a homebrewer is using a flat bottomed fermenter, there is little reason to layer in your hops, the surface area to volume ratio is much greater on a homebrew scale.”

    When I homebrewed my version of Pliny the Elder I used just one dry hop addition since my plastic bucket is a "flat bottomed fermenter”.

    https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3187-advanced-dry-hopping-techniques

    Cheers!
     
  17. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thanks JackH. That was informative. I'll just do all 3oz of dry hops here at the same time as soon as fermentations seems to have halted (using a 6.5 gal flat bottom primary bucket) and let the oils ooze for ~7-10 days then look to bottle when the gravity bottoms out.

    Should I do my first gravity check at 6 days after dry hopping then check ever 2 days there after?
     
  18. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    That is a reasonable plan.

    Cheers!
     
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  19. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    Thanks. I'm excited to see how this first attempt turns out, and I'm probably going to stick with the pale ale/IPA brewing and tweaking of recipes for a while to come to really get them dialed in and learn all the ins and outs. You guys answering my tons of questions along the way, has been great. I really appreciate it.
     
  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    One of the things I like to do while brewing my hoppy beers is to vary the hops used to brew beers that are not commercially available to me. I have a Galaxy/Citra IPA that is bottle conditioning right now. There is likely a commercial brewery(s) that makes a hoppy beer with these two hops but I personally have never had it so this beer will be a first for me. My next IPA will feature Equinox (now renamed Ekuanot) hops since there are no commercial IPAs available to me that feature this hop.

    Cheers!
     
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