Are barleywines easiest to brew?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Superflyjsc, Feb 6, 2017.

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  1. Superflyjsc

    Superflyjsc Pundit (824) Dec 6, 2013 Pennsylvania
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    To be fair I don't drink barleywines on a regular basis nor have I had one of the top end ones like King Henry but from my experience, no matter who brews it, most barleywines all taste relatively the same to me quality wise and I do enjoy em time to time. I cant recall ever having a really bad barleywine that comes remotely close to being a drain pour. I dont see much variations with them either other than maybe adding some hops or barrel aging them. Are barleywines relatively easy to make or simply put really hard to F up?
     
  2. LeRose

    LeRose Grand Pooh-Bah (4,423) Nov 24, 2011 Massachusetts
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  3. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,989) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
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    No, you can definitely brew a bad barleywine. Just sort the BA database of barleywines by rating, and go towards the bottom:
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/style/19/?sort=avgD&start=1100
     
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  4. surfcaster

    surfcaster Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2013 North Carolina
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    Seems like you may be confusing "ease" of brewing manufacture process with your perception of a lack of difference in final product. The above article addresses the former but I would suggest the differences in these huge beers is in ways like appreciating differences in spirits. Up front can present as overpowering but the subtleties are just underneath.

    A bit of paradox (to me anyway) is that the beers on the opposite end of the spectrum--the pilsners on one end and the barleywines on the others share a common thread of appreciation of nuance for completely different reasons as opposed to IPAs which are so much more easily characterized by virtue of their overwhelming (and I mean that in a positive sense) hop presence.
     
  5. JrGtr

    JrGtr Pooh-Bah (1,775) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah

    No. I mean, it's easy to throw a whole mess of grain in the mash tun and end up with a wort around 1.100, ferment it out and there you go, but to brew a good to great one, is much different. You do need to balance your grain ratios, your hopping levels, your fermentation practices and so on to have it come out drinkable versus a hot, boozy mess. Especially when you talk about those big beers, you have to make sure everything is spot on that the yeast do what they need to do, ferment out fully and don't have lots of off flavors. You don't want a ton of hops, but you don't also want all grain.
     
    #5 JrGtr, Feb 6, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
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  6. ivegot3Dvision

    ivegot3Dvision Pooh-Bah (1,810) Feb 9, 2015 Oregon
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    Definitely not. The higher the ABV goes, the more difficult it is to get the yeast to play nice and not throw off weird flavors. Also, beers like barleywines (or pilsners, or stouts, or anything else really without a bunch of adjuncts) have a difficult time covering up off flavors from brewing mistakes. So, if you have a hoppy barleywine with pecans, cacao nibs, and 20 different kinds of specialty malts, you're looking at either a new brewer or someone just screwing around.

    Beers brewed to style aren't always easy.
     
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  7. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    I feel like there is a huge range within the category. I don't brew, but I've read that the brewing can be time and labor intensive. I think that it's a style that tends to inspire some brewer's pride, so if you are finding that there aren't many "F uped" ones then this could have something to do with it (if minor).
     
  8. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,057) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    I'll agree with everything mentioned above, but regarding your comment that they all taste alike, if you check the brewery's information for each barleywine that you drink in the future and determine if it is an English version or an American version, you should experience a noticeable taste difference. American versions are hopped at a higher rate, thus a bit more bitterness is detectable, whereas the English version is more toward a malty taste characteristic.
     
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  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,375) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society Pooh-Bah

    It has been alluded to but to brew a quality Barleywine requires a lot of attention to having a healthy fermentation, Aspects like:
    • Lots of oxygenaton when pitching the yeast and maybe another dose of oxygen 12 hours post pitching

    • Pitching a ‘shit ton’ of yeast

    • Very carefully monitoring/maintaining the fermentation temperature

    • Etc.
    If a healthy fermentation is not achieved a number of ‘bad’ things can occur:
    • Perceptible fusel oils (higher alcohols) which can provide a hot/harsh taste

    • Excess amounts of esters (one ester provides a solvent-like flavor)

    • An incomplete fermentation (higher that desired final gravity)

    • Etc.
    Cheers!
     
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  10. jmdrpi

    jmdrpi Grand High Pooh-Bah (8,989) Dec 11, 2008 Pennsylvania
    BA4LYFE Society Pooh-Bah

    Correct. I'd be curious of a few that @Superflyjsc has drank.

    For example, a fresh bottle of Stone's Old Guardian (extremely bitter, hop dominated) is 180 degrees away from JW Lees Harvest Ale (sweet, with toffee, sherry, raisin flavors).
     
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  11. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    That's not entirely true either. At least on a home brew scale, when you hit an OG of around 1.080 your mash efficiency starts to suffer, meaning you have to keep using more and more grain, which, in turn, continues to have a negative impact on mash efficiency. I'd imagine professional brewhouses deal with similar issues, but have great capacity with which to address the problems.

    Two personal stories: I once tried to make a rye barleywine, and rye being the way it is, stuck the sparge, so I had to decoct. That threw me way over my predicted efficiency. I don't remember the OG, but the thing ended fermenting out to between 10-11% and tasted like Robitussin spike with cheap vodka.

    A more successful story involves me missing my OG because of the above-mentioned efficiency issue. I was aiming for 10% and ended somewhere around 8%. However, it turned out pretty good, and I've still got two bottles left, three years later.
     
  12. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
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    I have to disagree. Some of the worst beers I've ever had from any style are drain-pour Barleywines and some of the best beers I've ever had on the planet are Barleywines.
     
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  13. zid

    zid Grand Pooh-Bah (3,132) Feb 15, 2010 New York
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    Can you mention a couple from both categories?
     
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  14. bubseymour

    bubseymour Grand Pooh-Bah (4,800) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
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    Sure here are my polar opposites for the style.
    American BWs
    Troegs Flying Mouflan 2.25
    Solstice Dittiver - Brassiere Dieu du Ciel = 4.66
    Black Frost Bourbon BA - Brewers Alley = 4.59

    English
    FW Sucuba = 5
    Bourbon County BW = 4.69
    Weyerbacher Blithering Idiot = 1.5
     
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  15. Superflyjsc

    Superflyjsc Pundit (824) Dec 6, 2013 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    Well...BW's that ive had that I can recall would include various clown shoes barleywines like bluegrass, trillionaire, billionaire, Kane brewing vengeful hearts and Spellbound brewing barleywine. Ive had others further in the past that I cant recall as well but none of them really stood out for me as being underwhelming or dissapointing. All tasted great and im sure if I did some side by sides I would've picked up on some nuisances. I don't think ive ever had a really bad barleywine from anyone which is why it just made me wonder if its one of the easier styles to brew to quality and consistency. Or maybe ive just been getting lucky everytime with solid choices lol.
     
  16. Smakawhat

    Smakawhat Grand High Pooh-Bah (7,191) Mar 18, 2008 Maryland
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    No they aren't easy at all.
     
  17. surfcaster

    surfcaster Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2013 North Carolina
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    Will agree--
    I have had the great fortune of lots of Olde School a friend has kept in a walking cooler for safe keeping--many several years and just magic. Never had it fresh.
    Fresh Bigfoot--always great
    Mother of All Storms--incredible

    On the neg side
    GD BA Old Ruffian--just undrinkable for me
     
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  18. Harrison8

    Harrison8 Grand High Pooh-Bah (6,285) Dec 6, 2015 Missouri
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'd say also that barleywines aren't really a popular style to brew. It takes a large amount of ingredients to produce a style that doesn't sell nearly as well as heavy stout or IPA - which may also use a heavy amount of ingredients. So why pay the fee for something that will sell okay, versus something that you could turn over extremely quick. The folks who take the time to brew this style, often do it right.

    Then again, I don't know any barleywines I don't like either. Perhaps I've just tried only good ones.
     
  19. sjverla

    sjverla Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    Skip the fresh Olde School. I just got some of this year's and it is haaaarsh. I've got a few 2014's laying around and will opt for those should the craving strike again.
     
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  20. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Pooh-Bah (2,236) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois
    Pooh-Bah

    Outside the amount of grain you have to put in and get back out of the mash tun. The hop additions are straight forward. IT's just a less hoppy dipa. i.e. pack the mash tun to its limit, and pray it doesn't get stuck in the transfer.
    If the sugar I choose to add isn't clumpy. The day is a bit longer. That's about it.
     
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