Anyone trade less because of the new trade forum?

I think the new forum and the forum rules are hurting more than just trading: it's decreasing the site's traffic and its overall popularity. While search metrics are not my specialty (as opposed to evaluating the relative worth of beers), a quick glance at Alexa.com displays what appears to be a fairly persistent downward trend for every statistic of importance. The number of people who are visiting this site from search engines, as opposed to dedicated users, is WAY up. Looks like that statistic is up 200-400% since The Crash(tm). Page views are down, time spent on site is down, everything is down, and many of the numbers are not "blips on the radar." Punch up the year long graph and you won't need a slide rule to see what's happening.

Their site. Their rules. Their vision of how they want things to be. In my opinion, people come to forums to jibber jabber. Take that away and you slowly drain a community of its identity. And our identity was that of cantankerous one-upping homers who loved to proudly display our hoards whilst simultaneously mocking and deriding the efforts of others. And, of course, all the while bemoaning the state of affairs we reveled in creating. Without that, what have we become?

What, indeed.

 

I like the older format better. When your done a simple trade could be shut down, and guys would know it was a done deal. I feel the need to respond to any BM, so even after a trade is done I'm still getting requests.

 

You are able to delete the thread once the trade is completed. It's up on the top right under thread tools. =)

 

Why can feedback not be given via BM? Can people not say the same thing to someone on a personal level as they can publicly? You can still shit on people's ISO's...you just can't do it in front of an audience.

 

This has been debated ad nauseum, but I'll try one more time.

One word: newbies. People used to learn from watching the forum. What's appropriate. What's not. What's ridiculous. What will get you on people's "list". What ballpark you should be offering for that hot new one-off. Etc.

People whine & moan about the "new" traders listing their locals & asking for the moon. Fair enough. What's not fair is that many of these same people don't want comments. Well - how the hell are the newbies supposed to learn jack? I learned by watching what went down in the forum. Now, newbies coming & doing the same are learning exactly what's written there: "ISO: Hunahpu's FT: Dale's Pale Ale. Hey, jballerkrunk just posted that & he's been around three months, that sounds great!"

We're no longer educating our newbies. And in the long run, that's going to hurt.

 

The newbies learn from watching the forum? That makes me laugh a bit. Learn what? That the average individual only responds to belittle or criticize the ever living fuck out of the OP? If most people in here were truly constructive in their criticism, we'd still have the ability to reply. But people aren't kind. They aren't couth. And they sure as fuck aren't here to help out the new guy. It's easy to learn. We're adults. You put up an ISO, you hear crickets. You change your ISO. If you can't put together an ISO that gets you anything in return, then you'll eventually go the way of the dinosaur and be extinct in these parts. I'm so grateful that bad ISO's, like the very ones people bitch about, quickly find their way on page 2...instead of lingering about on the first page because everyone and their grandmother finds it of paramount importance to make sure the OP, n00b or not, knows that they're a fucking idiot with their request. Again...if the feedback was civil...replies would be a great tool.

Also...again...I refuse to believe that you can't accomplish with a BM what you can with a public response. Your response is to the OP. No one else needs to see it as it's not relevant to them. If you send them a BM and they're an asshole, well, you know not to trade with them right off the bat. They'll learn. Trial by fire. They don't need their hands held, and the rest of us don't need our ISO's relegated to page two while everyone turns the bad ISO's into a gong show for their own personal entertainment. I've had plenty of people who were courteous enough to send me BM's soliciting their advice. I appreciated it. I also appreciated them leaving my ISO the fuck alone. I wonder if anyone knows just how many of these deals get done, despite the collective braintrust here thinking the offers are outlandish. I've gotten lots of "unthinkable" trades done. Many probably wouldn't have been done, however, if the clownshoes that inundate this place were allowed to shit all over them and scare people away.

Fact is...when someone has something critical to say about me...I appreciate it when they pull me aside and say their piece. I do NOT appreciate it when they call me out in front of my friends and peers while they're closely gathered around. Like I said though...some people just like their opinions to be heard by all...particularly when they're being harsh or critical. Makes them feel like 10x the individual they are.

This thread alone gets ruthless enough...and it's evidence that this same kind of discourse doesn't belong in someone's ISO/FT.

 

You're the one dropping f-bombs in response to a guy's legitimate answer to your question. Maybe we should just keep people like you out of the ISO/FT.

 

Sometimes it's really difficult to get your point across without the use of profanity.




Wait.....no it's not.......

 

Sorry for the colorful language. Just something I feel strongly about. No disrespect intended. I don't respond much to the ISO/FT's in public unless it's to say "Let the man trade his beer."

 

No...not difficult at all. Matter of habit. People are free to dislike me because of it. I have no issues with that.

 

I don't want you to think I'm picking on you in front of your peers, but I'll wager you could find a small village of people around here who sat around, watched the trading forum a while, got an idea of what went for what, then jumped in. Education. "Refusing to believe that" is tantamount with being so in love with your position that you absolutely, neverneverneverbangyourheadonthewall will ever listen to another opinion.

Your last sentence is false for precisely the same reason. Sure, there are plenty of ass-clowns around, or those who wanted to get their unfunny meme into every third ISO: thread, but there also a ton of generous & experienced people around who'd chime in & try to lend a hand. You seem to have completely discounted this majority in a fit of blind rage. So be it.

 

You raise some interesting points. None of them are valid, but they are interesting. You seem to believe that because you don't like the way other people phrase things, or that you prefer to be belittled in private rather than publicly, that your personal preferences are an appropriate way of measuring how an ostensibly public forum should be run. They are not.

I believe in free in open communication. That includes message boards. The site was better off (and way more fun) when we could not only mock others, but be mocked in turn. We should ask for the ability to state what we want in bold text and hang it out there for all to see. Doesn't this site supposedly support freedom and the American Way? If we forget our principles, then the terrorists and communists have won.

Great revolutions began with handing out muckraising pamphlets and nailing scathing rebuttals to town halls and church doors for all to see, not with politely worded private messages written on doilies and delivered via private mail.

Beeradvocate grew and prospered in large part due to the clamoring, arguing voices of its feckless and vitriolic users. This endless discord was the fruit upon which we all fed. And yes, that fruit was soured at time by cackling nitwits, scree scree, and unctious braying, but that is the price of freedom.

So say we all.

 

I agree with both paragraphs. "Refusing to believe" is a bit...strong. However, I've seen little in terms of constructive responses, relative to the derogatory ones...to suggest that the bulk of public responses to ISO/FT's will ever be more beneficial than detrimental to what the OP is trying to accomplish. Yes...there are numerous BA's who are probably floating about the ISO/FT forum looking to nurture noob traders, looking to show them the light so they can evolve into productive traders who understand how to post an equal value trade. In meantime...there are 20x more BA's walking around with one of those padded mallets looking to play whack-a-mole and smack a clueless n00b around. I was not looking to discount the majority. The majority, don't say anything at all. I'm just saying that the derogatory comments, even when in the minority, are enough to derail any ISO/FT where they're present. A person can positively aid a noob by sending them a polite BM. Fact. If they're unresponsive to your BM, they're likely not going to be any more responsive to similar words made out in the open. Most people simply don't want to be openly confronted or criticized...whether your intentions are well intended or not.

I'm of the opinion that I don't think anyone needs to chime in offering their opinion about whether something can, won't, should, or shouldn't get done...unless the OP solicited just such an opinion. If you're interested in an offer, respond. If you're not...don't. It's the incessant offering of unsolicited opinions (see also threadshitting) that turns that forum into junk. When ISO's are allowed to drop to page two, unimpeded by unproductive responses, that they end up where they should be. Out of sight. I realize my opinion isn't going to be shared by some or even most...but I'm extremely grateful for the lack of responses. I'm a frequent trader, and I never seem to have issues with getting things done. I was a n00b once upon a time too....and I can promise you one thing: I didn't find the responses found in any ISO/FT's even remotely useful, and it certainly had zero influence on the ISO/FT's I posted. If I wanted aid or help...guess which forum I went to. This one.

 

You think? That's why it's called an opinion. Yes...because I'm opposed to people belittling one another in public...I think it should be post only, no replies. I don't think my preference should dictate such...I'm simply saying that the current format suits my liking. Were replies permitted, I'd not post ISO's here.

I believe in being open too. But I believe in some degree of tact as well (despite my often profanity laden posts). I've BM'ed several people with my thoughts on their ISO/FT. I didn't do it publicly, because it often only takes one unsolicited opinion before everyone and their grandmother is chiming in, and the thread is permanently stuck at the top of the forum, far from where it belongs. I must say, I've never read anything that said this site supported freedom or the American way. Just sayin'. Please point me to anything indicating otherwise that I may have glossed over. Not saying it shouldn't be there...but I didn't get the memo if that was the gist. I just think there's a time and place for everything. Sitting in a pew in church during Sunday mass probably isn't the best time to be talking on your cell phone. Nor would it be sitting in the boardroom while your CEO is speaking.

Some people here just want to watch the world burn. They just want to argue. Not to any productive means...but for the sake of arguing itself.

By the way, I could barely stop laughing while reading your last two paragraphs. Outstanding.

 

I only wish I could get the sounds of silence from Levitation, but that seems impossible. Whether it be on here or the FB beer page, he continues to bring my name up. Obsessed?

 

no, amused. you're projecting - your rabid, obsessive lowballing of blabaer is the stuff of legend.

sorry, but the truth hurts sometimes.

lmao

 

My guess is that if you ignored it, it would eventually stop.

 

he's usually talking about actual behavior of yours. do you see the disparity if he were silenced but you weren't?

re: lurking more, indeed, people should lurk more and learn how to be good forum users. that little prescriptive bit of truth applies to user behavior, not moderator behavior.

myself, i'm still for no-reply because it doesn't privilege and perma-bump memefests. i don't care that it "makes it harder for newbs to learn." i also don't care that it makes it harder to shame scammers and exploiters. try harder to shame them. if you really think their ISO:FTs are out of line, PM a mod about it and see if their exploitation threads get deleted (they very well might).

 

Your guess would be wrong! Trolls such as Levitation live for nothing more than attention and annoying people, even when they ask him to move on. Fortunately, I have a life outside of my parents basement.

 

when you encounter people outside of your parents basement and say "please move on, i do not like the things you're saying!" do the people you're addressing go silent? or begin talking about things you like?

that doesn't sound like the real world to me.