A Good Czech Pilsner

I second Smutty Vunderbar and Berkshire makes a good Czech Pils; however, I think it's out of season right now. Smutty is year-round.

 

I'm not really sure what you are saying about Wernesgruener. You say it is a bit of an exception but which way? Is it very similar to Czech beers?

I wasn't trying to say that Bavarian pilsners ARE less bitter. That was just based on the discussion of differences between german beers talked about on here. Northern german pils is lighter body but hoppier. Southern pils is slightly fuller body.

Since I've been of drinking age I had an internship over a summer in Dortmund where I primarily drank Kronen Export or other beers from the northern area.
The Wurzburger pils was my first beer when arriving for my honeymoon. I drank it on the trainride to Bamberg so I couldn't pour it into a glass. I couldn't smell the beer but I was surprised at the hop flavor and bitterness.

The rest of the time in Bamberg I drank rauchbier or gluhwein because we were there over Christmas. Then went to Salzburg and I struggled to find anything other than Trumer (most places were closed on Christmas day so our options were limited). Then we spent a couple of days in Munich where I primarily drank helles or hefeweizens.

More recently I went to Koblenz, Trier, and Baden-Baden. I primarily drank wine that trip. But the Rothaus Pils Tannenzaepfle was delicious.

But basically the majority of my beer consumption in Germany has been outside of Bavaria and when in Bavaria or Franconia it was primarily with beers other than pils.


I REALLY wish there was a way to quantify hop flavor and aroma... Because IBU's are shit for a measurement. They tell you almost nothing about the actual hop character, and they really don't give an accurate view of bitterness because there are so many other bittering compounds in beer and hop bitterness perception is so strongly affected by malts in the beer and water profiles.

 

Isn't Smutty's a German Pils? It IS called "Vunderbar". That being said, it does use Czech Saaz hops, but it still tastes much more German than Czech to me.

'Take a break from the Sturm und Drang of modern life, with this elegant, refreshing pilsner. Our brewers created Vunderbar! with both feet grounded in tradition, focusing on authentic German pilsner malt and spicy Czech Saaz hops. The result just might get you to shimmy into your favorite lederhosen, bust into a quick schuhplattler and loudly proclaim, “Das ist Vunderbar!”'

 

Yes, exactly, it always felt closer to czech beers the same stregnth to me than other german mainstream Pilsners, though it has been a while since I had one.

I always questioned this binary narrative "souterh pils is more malty, northern pils is more hoppy." Outside of Jever as the obvious exception, many famous examples from the north (Holsten, Beck's, Herrenhäuser, even Astra to some degree, or think of Rostocker,Lübzer..) are not as hoppy as this tale of the "hoppy northern Pils" might make you believe, while many souterh german Pilsners can be quite hoppy ((Augustiner, Gampertbräu, Lindenhardter, Kessmann...etcpp.) That's why I had to question it here, too. It is more complex than that, specifically when you look at germany as a whole and not only a north/south difference, there is just more to it.

Exactly what I am pointing at- hoppy Pilsners are, in a lot of regions in the south, the norm, not the exception. Würzburger Hofbräu(I assume that was the one) is pretty average seen in a wider context..

 

Couple that with the fact that hop perception can vary greatly from palate to palate.

Give a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale to a Bud Light drinker, and they'll claim it's extremely bitter.

Give that same beer to a person who grew up drinking Stone IPA, and they'll laugh at you if you tell them Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is hoppy.

Then give that Stone IPA drinker a Trillium-type IPA, and tell them it's extremely hoppy. They'll laugh at you again, claiming the Trillium tastes like fruit, and isn't bitter at all.

 

I will agree that German pils are much drier than Czech pale lager, and that helps in hop perception, but it's hard to even compare Fässla (dry, sharp, crisp) to Kout or Únětické (soft, creamy, slight bitter finish). I've always said pale lager (pils) is way more of a category than a monolithic style. Also, I'm basing this all on draft in the countries of origin. Drinking imported Czech or German lager from a bottle is not a fair representation.

 

With you there,100%. But what about the, not so few, pale franconian Lagers not labelled "Pils" that are still quite hoppy?
Hübner Bräu Steinfeld Vollbier, Held Bräu Helles or Heckel Helles always reminded me -a lot- of something like the pale,weaker lagers from places like Kout, Svijany and so on:
They have this malty, full,soft body and soft texture while also having spicy, bitter,aromatic hops.

 

Unpasteurized (not clear if it is unfiltered) Pilsner Urquell is shipped fresh and direct to tanknova bars in London, Berlin, Vienna and other places in Europe. Unfortunately I missed it on my recent trip to London and I'm not sure if this was even a thing back in the early- to mid-nineties when I was visiting the Czech Republic.

 

Probably not intentional, but I love the irony of this statement.

I think it's ironic, or maybe an oxymoron. Whatever.

 

Singer Pils from Thuringia reminds me very much of early-90s Urquell (and many other of the best pale lagers from Czechia).

 

Totally unintentional. PU emphasizes the unpasteurized part in their tanknova marketing material but doesn't seem to say if it is unfiltered.

 

Thanks. I have had some from the tanks at The White Horse in London. Didn't seem all that "unclear" at the time. Next time I will look closer.

 

Wernesgruener is my most purchased beer at the moment. In North Texas our German beer selection is limited. I don't think Beck's or St. Pauli Girl are good representatives of German beer. I think Warsteiner has still been dumbed down a lot.

We do have Koenig Pilsener and Bitburger fairly available and Spaten, Kostritzer, and a variety of hefeweizens and doppelbocks (not equating the two just not wanting to think of the brands).

But Wernesgruener is readily available at an ALDI 1 mile from my house and very cost effective.
I was very surprised when I first bought it. It does have a noticeable malt flavor but not nearly as bready as the Pilsner Urquell that I've had. But the hop bitterness is quite harsh and pronounced... Not nearly the rounded smooth bitterness that struggles to get past the malt body of the Pilsner Urquell at least poured out of cans.

The hop aroma and flavor of the Wernesgrueners I'm getting are the dominant characteristic I find.



Edit:
I really wasn't trying to push the over-simplification of northern and southern pilsners. I have not had the opportunities to travel as widely in Europe as I'd like. I have been to Germany multiple times but only 3 times when I was of drinking age (well I went when I was 16 but I was staying with a kid who was 14 and I didn't drink any beer then.)
The first time was when I first turned 21 before I started homebrewing and I really didn't have the best framework built in my mind of the different flavors or difference/similarity between the styles.

Hopefully I'll be able to make another trip within the next year with my wife and brother-in-law. Our plan is currently a few days in Berlin, a day or two somewhere around Leipzig or Dresden or some other town there. Then a few days in Czech Republic... I really want to go to Pilsen but my brother-in-law wants to check out Prague. Either way I'll be learning about Czech lagers.

 

Have you had a Flensburger Pilsner as brewed 'back in the day'? That beer used to be brewed with over 35 IBUs. I have no idea what it would measure out to today.

Cheers!

 

Well of course there is the table linked to by @herrburgess a few years ago.
http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthread&tid=9614

The person posted the table in 2010 but I have no idea when the table was made.
Flensburger is listed at 36 IBU's.

 

Define "back in the day", and remember... I only became of legal drinking age in germany in 2002.... so while I might have had the odd sipp or two of Kölsch, maybe even an entire glass in the mid 90ies..., but yeah from memory, Flensburger is close to Jever, forgott about that one, should try it one day again....

 

Please report back your findings. As I sort of made mention in my prior post I would not be surprised if this beer has a noticeably lower hop presence then say a decade or so ago.

On a related matter I had my first Jever over 10 years ago (12 years ago?) and I remember that beer having a very noticeable hop presence. My last 6-pack of Jever (2016) seemed notably muted to me even though it was rather fresh (only 4 months old). I have no measured data to reference but it seems to me that even Jever is 'dumbing down' their Pilsner to be more acceptable to mainstream beer drinker's preferences.

Cheers!

 

I have relatives in Friesland, so I had Jever throught the years from maybe 2005 or so on(mostly close to the source), and would not say it became much less bitter since then. Though it is not a beer I used to enjoy too much...
I always hear from some people that they have analyzed Jever for the last 20+ years and the IBU stayed the same...Maybe, I don't know.
What I do know is that im pretty sure that since my first Uerige in the early 2000s, their Alt has not changed one bit.
And yes I will report when I had a fresh Flensburger..
Though one thing: Flensburger tried to market less bitter versions of their beer (Flensburger Gold, Flensburger Hell)- Jever has not.

 

But they make Jever Light, Jever Fun, and Jever Lime. How would you characterize those beers?

Cheers!

 

I was going to make the same recommendation. Hither is the Czech pilsner. And Palatine Pils is their German pilsner. Both ridiculously good. Suarez single-handedly brought me back to "small" beers.