Toppling Goliath in Chicago (2018)

As pointed out, the milk to beer analogy isn't a very good comparison, and as such, I'll blow it off with this answer: Milk has an expiration date, Surly beer doesn't. It just has a canned date. So if Surly doesn't have an expiration date on their beers and I get an 8 month old beer, how is the retailer supposed to know to have removed it? How is the average consumer supposed to know that isn't what the beer is supposed to taste like 8 months later?

Are you mad at your car dealer who sold you the car that isn't what you'd hoped or are you mad at the car manufacturer who made it?

Surly holds the power in this, they choose the distributor. If their product is not being taken care of as they want it to be, they can change a distributor or give them less product and move it to another market. Back in 2006 Bells pulled out of Illinois because they didn't like how their distributor was handling the product and representing their brand. They didn't say "Well, we did our best and it's the retailers, distributors, and consumers problem now."

 

To me, this is a profound misunderstanding of how the three tiers work with each other.

Surly doesn't have that much power. Distributor contracts are generally relationships that do not expire and are incredibly expensive to change.

Your description of the Bell's pullout from Illinois is not accurate:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2006-11-10/business/0611100190_1_microbrew-beer-pint

There's also a good discussion in that article on how distribution contracts work.

The reason Surly has a canned date and milk has an expiration date is there is actually a food safety issue with respect to expired milk. Old beer just doesn't taste as good. Still, some brewers do use a "best before" type of system rather than a canning date (something that actually provides the buyer less information about the freshness of the beer). But Surly certainly would have what is known as a "code" date for their beer that would be communicated to the distributor. Beer that is "out of code" is supposed to be pulled by the retailer, generally speaking.

https://beerandbrewing.com/VL60mysAAMIMyqe7/article/is-this-beer-fresh

I would virtually guarantee you Surly communicates a pull date and asks that beer get yanked when it's out of code. That is standard practice. They can't force anyone to pull the beer, though.

The idea that you would so steadfastly want to make Surly responsible for policing thousands of retailers with whom it does not have direct relationships seems both odd and unfair.

Anyway, this is a Toppling Goliath thread, so I'll just leave the back-and-forth there in the interest of not hijacking any further beyond this post.

 

I bet a vast majority of people on this site in a blind taste test couldn't identify which beers are 1 day old, 3 weeks old and 3 months old.

(I bet all of the replies will be from the "huge minority" of people who believe they could though)

 

I think that's entirely dependent upon what beer we're discussing.

Galaxy Bowl? I can definitely tell you when it's less than a couple weeks old (since after like 3 it's kind of a mess). At least the first batch, which is the one I've had.

Navaja? That shit keeps for months. Same with the 3 month old Stratus I had months back.

At some point I'll grab a "fresh" 4-pack of PS, drink 2 or 3, and maybe keep one outside of the fridge and one in, for like 3 or 4 weeks. See if it's just that the batches are off, or if the beer really is falling off that quickly.

 

I've done tests like this numerous times. With everything from Julius to Lizard King. I currently have a Heady and a Haze from July in my fridge for this exact reason. I'd say those of us who have partaken in my "tests" have gotten it right 80-90% of the time. Days or a couple weeks vs. months (3+) is usually incredibly easy to distinguish. I tend to stay away from maltier tasting IPAs in general though, and those probably change less over the timeframe you're referencing.

 

So just to clarify, you throw out a milk analogy and back track on it when it is refuted point blank?

The Bells thing is accurate, Larry Bell wasn't happy with the way his distributor handled his beer. Surly could throw their weight around with the distributor just like GI does. The distro can either comply or lose a massive account $$$$. Really simple stuff here man.

At the end of the day, I could care less whether you agree that I'm right. I'm still holding Surly accountable and avoiding their cans.

You may also want to google this topic as there is a recent thread from January on the same topic for the general beer industry on BA so you can see I'm not an isolated case.

 

Yeah, that's kinda why I specified the first batch, since it sounds like the second was different. I'm relatively certain I could tell most of their actually hazy NE beers fresh vs 3 or 4 weeks old.

 

*****NERD ALERT!******


;-)

 

With the PS, I'm just not sure how much is age and how much is variance in batches. I just cracked a 2/1 can last night and it still tasted great. Some of the earlier batches tasted off after a month.

 

I visited my parents last weekend and there was a 6-pack of Zombie Dust in their basement fridge from December 2015. It was still great - granted it wasn't 2 day old Zombie Dust great, but still an awesome offering

 

that face isn't my reaction to what you said, it's in anticipation as to what others on here WILL say about 14 month old ZD tasting great.

 

Sometimes the beer is still drinkable (relatively enjoyable), but there's just no hop presence. I had a Pliny the Elder (known for falling off relatively fast) that was almost a year old, and it was basically all malt and no hops. I still drank it but there was no mistake that a fresh one and one almost a year old were basically two different beers.

 

Not going to lie, I'm sure I brought it over for Christmas awhile back and just forgot to drink it

 

I would never consider drinking a beer more than 1 day old. The fact that you not only considered it but actually drank a year old beer means you'll have to turn in your advocate card and pass over your cellar stock to me.

Thanks.

 

*Drops everything I was doing and performs seppuku*

 

Seppuku reference = +1

 

I guess it really comes down to availability. At home I do not buy any pale ales or IPA's that are more than a few weeks old. Usually it will be seasonal releases, fresh Two Hearted, or direct local brewery sales. However, last week week when I traveled west of Michigan for the first time in about 15 months and found six week old PS in Illinois I picked some up without a second thought. It was six week old and bottled in Florida. Still an excellent brew in my opinion.

 

Hey, wait a second, something's not quite adding up here